creosote build up BK princess

[Chopslide]

Hi all
I have been burning the new princess for about a month now and was noticing more smoke as i opened door for reloads so i jumped up on the roof and the top cap screen was totally clogged w/creosote also looking in the top section of pipe there is a build up...We have been in the shoulder season so I have been burning on low to medium almost exclusively as turning up the tstat would bake us out of the house. I am worried that I will have to clean the flue every month thru the burning season at this rate and wondering what I am doing wrong? My guess is the long slow burns but thought that was what these stoves did best of all. most of my research told me that these stoves put out very little creosote and that cleaning once a yr usually resulted in finding little or no buildup
I have a straight up flue 6" single wall for 5' to a ceiling box......... double ul listed stuff for another 12' to roof.. approx 3' more above roof jack
I have been burning doug fir that reads 13 to 15% on my cheap moisture meter and have had the cat engaged for almost all of the burn time.

I will do a clean tomorrow when I can get the stove cooled down and roof thawed enough to walk on it
then hopefully with some feedback I can figure out how to keep it that way
thanks for any replys

 

[myzamboni]

Burn wide open for about 15 minutes each day, and that will help prevent future clogs.

 

[Todd]

Did you take that moisture reading from inside a resplit piece? You should also check your cat for clogging.

 

[summit]

welcome to having a CAT stove: sure you can burn it forever on low, but I don't care how great the CAT is supposed to be: it all ends up as cresote in the end...

 

[Chopslide]

todd, I do take readings from inside re splits only.
check cat for clogging?

 

[Todd]

Your cat could have fly ash or creosote build up which will create a dirty burn. Your owners manual should tell you how to get at the cat and brush or vacuume it out about once every cord or so burned. If you were engaging the cat to soon it could have stalled and not burned the smoke which created the dirty chimney. Are you monitoring the stove and cat temps?

I've been burning my cat stove with long slow burns the last few months and there is no build up at all anywhere.

 

[Chopslide]

I have been monitoring temp as it is a new stove and still very interesting to figure it all out

 

[Chopslide]

I will also look for the possibility of some flyash build up on the cat and try to burn a little bit more on the hot side and see if that helps

 

[Todd]

Yeah, it may take some trial and error to figure out your new stove. You need to find that sweet spot, you could be turning the air down too much in these relatively warmer shoulder season temps.

 

[Chopslide]

trial and error.... that I am good at... at least the error part.. a learning curve for me on the cat stove but a little more air is probably the best advice

 

[Patapsco Mike]

Something is definitely wrong. I suggest doing a lot of flue checking outside during the burn. You aren't going to build up a lot of creosote quickly when you are having perfectly clear gasses coming out of your chimney. Even on the lowest of burns my chimney vents gas is clear and only visible as heat waves. Sometime during your burn you are having a lot of smoke go up your stack. Find out when that is and you'll figure out how to keep the creosote from being a problem.

Could your cat be loose- not properly seated? If air is going around the cat during the burn, you could be sending a lot of smoke up the chimney during long slow burns.

 

[begreen]

Hi all
I have been burning the new princess for about a month now and was noticing more smoke as i opened door for reloads so i jumped up on the roof and the top cap screen was totally clogged w/creosote

:bug: :ahhh: IMPOSSIBLE (so they say)

 

[BrotherBart]

Paging Mr. Wet1. Call in the lobby for Mr. Wet1. :zip:

 

[Chopslide]

tomorrow I can cool off the stove and clean flue and checkout things inside the stove... I have had problems with turning down past 1.5 and getting decent burns could be the wood I guess
most likely some sort of " operator error" or so my owners manual says

 

[North of 60]

When was this wood cut and split and what type? I run my stove 75% of the time on 1-1.5 setting. Sorry, no cleaning required Summit. Once a year weather its needed or not. Is your chimney sealed or is there a possible draft leak along with the wood actually being not as dry as the meter says?

 

[nelraq]

I don't run a Blaze King, but have read the manual for it. I remember one of the DO NOT DO items went something like this. "After loading the stove and getting a good hot fire going, DO NOT turn your thermostat down to low in one step. This can actually put the fire out or close to it. Instead, reduce the thermostat gradually - with about 10 minute?? intervals between changes. Then, when you get down to the setting you want, the fire is very well established and will burn cleanly, at a low rate, for a long time." This is not verbatim - just from memory.

I do something very similiar with my non cat stove. I load the firebox, get a good fire going, then gradually close the damper to get a long burn.
Hope this helps!

 

[Lanningjw]

Chopslide,
I also have the Princess, but in the insert model. It has a differnt t-stat control damper than your stove, but they share the same cat and box size. I started burning in the first part of Oct and also noticed more build up in the SS liner than my other insert with secondary burn tubes. I have checked my cat a few times and it appears to be free of fly ash or other contaminates. I have also been burning on the super low t-settings because of the higher than normal temps in Minnesota. If you did not burn on low the insert would bake you right out of the house.

During the first week or so of burns I was using large pieces of what I thought was dry ash, but it was not as dry as I thought it was. I have now been burning soft maple that was standing dead and was cut and split over a year ago. This dryer wood works better with the insert. Seems to be a much cleaner burn. I guess its all about having super dry wood when you burn on low with a cat stove. I asked Chris at BK about this and he said if its not dry wood burn it at a higher setting and you will be OK.

I was trying to see how long of burn times I could get at low with the insert and reloaded while it was on a lower temp setting with out bring it back to a higher setting. I think its Ok to do this? maybe some of the BK guys can advise me on this?

I am also gonna clean the liner and the cap, as I can see some small stuff forming on it. I am gonna open the by-pass and give it a cleaning. Or at least climb the roof and inspect.

 

[Wet1]

BB, your BK/cat envy is showing through again... :cheese:

Summit, I know you're as anti cat as they come, but your statement is just plain fiction. If the cat is active and functioning as it should be, and the wood is dry, almost all the creosote should be burned in before it leaves the stove. As Mike said, when these stoves are operating correctly, there's almost nothing but heat waves and occasionally some moisture coming from the stack.

Chop, I would agree something is not right here. As Todd suggested, you might want to check your cat, but I doubt it's plugged. I'd also give it a little bit of a wiggle to make sure it's seated tight and that there's little chance air is getting around it. I doubt your problem is the cat since it's a new stove, but stranger things have happened. With my King (which has a SS cat), you cant see any smoke coming out once the cat is active, I would expect your Princess to be similar. Also, check to make sure your bypass is closing all the way and sealing well... if not smoke could be bypassing the cat and going straight up your flue.

Make sure your wood is well seasoned, trying other wood isnt a bad idea, if nothing else, just to see how everything reacts. Again, if you see smoke coming out while the cat is active, I'd be leery of the MC in your wood. If it's damp, burn it a little hotter. You might want to look at your burning technique as well. As others have mentioned, running the stove wide open for a little while each day will keep everything much cleaner. If you're not doing this, you might want to start. If it gets too hot in the house, open some windows while doing the high burn.

Lastly, if your flue isn't insulated, it's not a bad idea to get it insulated...

 

[Chopslide]

Thanks for all the replys! when burning, the cat seems to stay active quite easily so I dont think that is the problem. I sometimes turn the t stat down faster than the manual suggests to keep from overheating the house but do watch the cat and never seem to stall it or put out the fire. I always run it on high for at least 15 min after a reload to get everything burning well before turning down tstat
if the sun comes out today I should be able to do a quick clean and inspect inside of the stove to check out some of the ideas I have from your posts

 

[SmokingAndPoking]

welcome to having a CAT stove: sure you can burn it forever on low, but I don't care how great the CAT is supposed to be: it all ends up as cresote in the end...

Umm, what? This doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[learnin to burn]

Don't assume the cat is fine just because it's new. I found the gasket around mine wasn't all there and the cat was leaning forward. Upon replacing the gasket I found the gasket was embedded into the cat clogging it in a few spots. After vacuuming the stuff out I noticed the cat was warped which is what caused it to lean out in the first place. I turned it around so it wouldn't lean out but I suspect due to the warping it isn't operating as well as it should. I'll be chatting with my dealer about it soon.

 

[Chopslide]

Ok it got warm enough to get on the roof (33f) I cleaned the flue cleaned out and inspected the stove... the cat seemed to be snug in its mount... bypass door seal looked fine I couldent find anything wrong that jumped out at me so.... started a new fire....at about halfway into the active zone on thermo closed bypass tstat on 3 let it rip for a half hour mabe more.. cat thermo is pegged.. climbed ladder to check stack and smoke.... not alot but smoking a little. I then turned it down to 2.5 and waited 20 minutes or so checked again and still smokin a little
I am burning mostly dougfir that was standing dead 2yrs back split and stacked 2yrs ago reading something like 14% on the meter.
my idea that the cat is ok is mostly from the fact that it will stay engaged for a burn cycle easily but that could be wrong as well.
Its about 32 now high pressure for the next couple days so it will be cold enough at night to let it rip a little and check again for smoke tomorrow

 

[Patapsco Mike]

I can't believe you are seeing smoke at that high a cat reading. I see no smoke at all once the cat is engaged. I mean nothing, no evidence at all that the stove is burning.

I think air is getting around your cat one way or another. I would suggest getting some other wood just to rule that out.

 

[summit]

BB, your BK/cat envy is showing through again... :cheese:

Summit, I know you're as anti cat as they come, but your statement is just plain fiction. If the cat is active and functioning as it should be, and the wood is dry, almost all the creosote should be burned in before it leaves the stove. As Mike said, when these stoves are operating correctly, there's almost nothing but heat waves and occasionally some moisture coming from the stack.

Chop, I would agree something is not right here. As Todd suggested, you might want to check your cat, but I doubt it's plugged. I'd also give it a little bit of a wiggle to make sure it's seated tight and that there's little chance air is getting around it. I doubt your problem is the cat since it's a new stove, but stranger things have happened. With my King (which has a SS cat), you cant see any smoke coming out once the cat is active, I would expect your Princess to be similar. Also, check to make sure your bypass is closing all the way and sealing well... if not smoke could be bypassing the cat and going straight up your flue.

Make sure your wood is well seasoned, trying other wood isnt a bad idea, if nothing else, just to see how everything reacts. Again, if you see smoke coming out while the cat is active, I'd be leery of the MC in your wood. If it's damp, burn it a little hotter. You might want to look at your burning technique as well. As others have mentioned, running the stove wide open for a little while each day will keep everything much cleaner. If you're not doing this, you might want to start. If it gets too hot in the house, open some windows while doing the high burn.

Lastly, if your flue isn't insulated, it's not a bad idea to get it insulated...

Sorry to say it, and not meaning any disrespect to you, but this whole post is why I am not a CAT fan....LOTs of "IF's" and "When" and "Make sure" and "Should be".... Its a woodtove, It shouldn't be that complicated to bust out. I understand the whole argument for the efficiency comparisons between the two systems under IDEAL conditions and 100% PROPER operation. Real world fact is that neither happen in conjunction frequently. I see alot of chimneys and stoves; and the ones with CAT stoves are always sooted up, and parts are breaking around the cat and/or damper. I've had LOPI, JOTUL and PE woodstoves in my house, and none have sooted the chimney, or had any problem burning... and no real replacement parts (other than a gasket or a firebrick) to deal with... However, every CAT stove I run into during the workday has issues . Just my 2 pennies. Been in the BIZ for 9 yrs, now... I try to sway customers away from CAT stoves altogether, for both of our piece of mind...

 

[Patapsco Mike]

pull out the baffle and clean from the bottom w/ flex rods.... also to consider: is there a cap on the liner? is it the one that came w/ the liner? often the standard liner cap is made like those for a prefab chimney: it has spark guard strips and/or mesh around it. this catches alot of flyash and soot bits and can heavily restrict the draft, even thought the stack itself is clean. i have swept alot of chimney setups like yours over the years, and usually a clogged cap is the reason for the smoke back (provided the wood is good and seasoned and the baffle is installed correctly.) also, if you had the chimney swept: I would verify the sweep didn't leave a pile of soot on top of your baffle... If he didn't take it out when he swept it this could be a factor as well.

Man, seems like a lot of "if your baffle" and "usually" and "provided the wood is" in the advice to that Summit owner too

Let's be honest, there are a lot of if's and buts with any stove and flue setup. Having a cat or non-cat doesn't change that. In both cases there is a lot to think about.