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Dealer is tacking on more $ for installing my Harman than originally stated on receipt

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Diana627, Jul 24, 2008.

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  1. Diana627

    Diana627 New Member

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    So. NH
    My P68 is being installed next Tuesday, and today I got a call from my dealer telling me that since he needs a couple more elbows, there's an additional charge of $178.00. I was stunned, to say the least, as I was given the price for installation. I feel I'm stuck and if I balk at this additional installation charge, he'll give my stove to someone else. He has me over a barrel. When we purchased the Harman, I got a great deal. Now, I think I'm paying for the price increase. The discounted price for the P68, with labor, installation, parts came to $3836. Tonight, my husband said to get the stove installed and then block the $178 on our amex when the new charge gets on the bill. Then I think what if I need service! I guess my good deal is still a good deal because I'm getting my stove, but with an additional $178 tacked on after I already paid for installation.
    Can someone tell me how much an additional couple of 90 degree elbows would add on to installation? I'll probably say nothing and just be happy I'm getting my stove and hope that there are no more "additional charges" after this "additional charge".
    Am I wrong?
    Thanks....

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  2. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    I'd ask where the new turns are. Then why didn't he have them in the first contract while you still had time to shop around?

    On my installation they tried (or accidentally?) substituted a lower cost liner. I had them specify all this on the contract. The dealere admitted that had happened, I think they normally don't specify the make of any of the part and put in what ever they have on hand when the installation is scheduled. I was prepared to fight him on the cost, telling how much less my research showed the substitute cost. He agreed to reduce the final cost to reflect the lower cost substitution. I have now paid in full my Visa bill for that work. This is why I put the contract on Visa, rather than offer to pay by check, I want the protection of being able to "stop payment". It has leverage, then too the dealer didn't argue very much.
  3. Shortstuff

    Shortstuff Feeling the Heat

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    I get the feeling that you feel like your caught between a rock and a hard place, but I don't think so.

    If you made a purchase for a stove and installation at an agreed price as stated on your receipt, then I would make sure that the deal stands. There's no doubt in my mind that the dealer has made a profit on your purchase and now because he has probably lost a few (or more) sales because Harmans are unavailable until next year, perhaps he is trying to make up a few lost dollars any way he can.

    The first thing I would do is get that stove into your house before you agree on anything additional. If he insists that he must get these additional parts (elbows) paid for before it's delivered to your home, then tell him to provide you with a list of the "additional" items they need for the install and that you'll pick them up elsewhere. If he still insists that you purchase these items from him, I would contact your states Attorney Generals office and explain your situation to them. If your AG is anything like Massachusetts, they are very friendly and willing to assist any way they can.

    You might also want to look at your receipt and see exactly what parts are listed on it. Then ensure that every part that you paid for is used for the install. All the extra vent parts and pieces are way overpriced from the dealer anyway. One part they sold me was nothing more than a flimsy 11" square sheet of metal, painted black on one side and had a hole in the middle for my vent pipe, and that cost me $25.00.

    I know that it's easy for me to suggest that you take a hard line with your dealer, I don't have to deal with him for future warranty work, etc. as you do. But like everyone else, I've endured my share of morons trying to get over on me and it just doesn't happen any more. Just take a firm stand and do what you must to get that stove installed, then cancel your payment if you have to. Then contact your AG.

    Steve
  4. Diana627

    Diana627 New Member

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    Loc:
    So. NH
    The dealer came to our house for an on site inspection after we purchased and paid for everything. It was then that he said he did need extra piping as he had to go up higher outside. But, for goodness sake, isn't $178 a bit much for a couple of elbows or is metal that expensive. I really have no clue. I paid $475 for parts and $395 for labor and now there's an additional $178. It makes you wonder......
    Brunster
  5. MishMouse

    MishMouse Minister of Fire

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    Normally what the dealer gives you is an estimate based upon what he thinks is needed for the installation. When the actual installers get there they may find additional things that are needed to be done to make sure you are up to code and have a safe installation. Now I do not know what the current market prices are on elbows for a pellet stoves or what your installation requires, but I wouldn't get to concerned until I see what the actual bill states. One thing I would make sure that you get is a detailed receipt of what parts were used and the cost of each piece.

    If you think that the 178 is still to high you could ask what elbows are they using aka (what brand and price they are charging you) and you pick them up at your local hardware store to lower your cost. But, note if there are additional elbows needed to be installed it would increase the labor cost depending on why they are needed.
  6. Steveo

    Steveo Member

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    Depending on the piping you could be looking at that much more. I was really surprised at the cost of my piping. I got the Excel pipe and some of my prices were:

    90 degree elbow $55.00
    45 degree elbow $44.00
    24" length $39.00
    48" length $46.00
    Tee w/cap $71.00

    Those are jsut a few of the pieces I needed so I can see where your cost could go up.
  7. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    I agree that extras could be found when the first on-site visit is made.

    I made sure that the liner we ordered for my installation was long enough, in fact I figured it was at least 4' too long, but they can always make it shorter, and when ordering the piple a 30' and a 35' was not enough different for me to want to risk having one too short. So, I helped engineer the order for my installation. Still, there is a step back on my masonry chimney that I didn't think about, although I knew I could not see up to the top when looking up from the fire place. Still, we installed a flexible liner, so it just "snakes" around the step back.

    Not much information here, just letting you know I fought my dealer for a final cost reduction because I had a hand in the details and all was written on the order. His salesman (I didn't buy directly from the dealer) may not do that in the future, then too most customers don't ask/demand I'd guess.
  8. MCPO

    MCPO Minister of Fire

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    Seems like some of these stove dealers are worse than aluminum siding salesmen ever were. (tin men)
  9. imacman

    imacman Guest

    IMO, you aren't over a barrel.....you paid for the stove already, so he can't give it to someone else, plus you have a confirmed price for the install. I'd check the fine print, and if it doesn't say that additional parts & labor could be added, I think you could have HIM over a barrel. Unless he wants to go to small claims court, you have a signed contract.
  10. SteveT

    SteveT Feeling the Heat

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    West of Boston
    If the dealer is adjusting an estimate I think you have to accept the change. Even if he is unfairly tweaking a firm quote, I think you should accept that the dealer is a jerk, make payment and focus on the fact that even with this surprise you will be saving a bundle this coming winter.

    If you don't want to accept it I don't think blocking the credit card is the way to go. Credit card companies protect a user from fraudulent charges (item never delivered and the like) but if you agree to the charge you can delay things by disputing the charge but I think you will ultimately end up paying the bill.

    Depending upon how far you want to take this (and risk the ire of the dealer if you need them for repairs) you could make payment but when you sign the delivery invoice note that you are paying what you consider to be unfair last minute charges. Then contact the BBB or the state's Consumer Protection office, or go to small claims court. Any of these are legitimate ways to deal with this problem -- it just depends on how much effort you want to put into fixing it. At times it is not just the money - it's not being a victim of some unscrupulous jerk.
  11. MCPO

    MCPO Minister of Fire

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    He`s telling you now that he needs a couple more elbows? Exactly how many elbows is he planning to install in your system?
    I think the limit is two so it sounds like he`s full of it. I`m beginning to trust used car salesmen more than stove shop proprietors.
  12. Xena

    Xena Minister of Fire

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    I'm with Giovanni. Also I'd want to know exactly how the dealer came
    to this sudden conclusion while sitting in his office. I could see it
    being discovered while in the midst of installing a stove if they didn't
    calculate the layout properly when they came out to your home,
    but out of the blue it sounds fishy to me. I'd ask some questions.
    You're entitled.
  13. mralias

    mralias Minister of Fire

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    Brunster, your post is confusing in that I am not sure if you have already paid for your stove? Do you have a written contract or sales slip? Was this a verbal agreement? It all comes down to the wording of the contract if there is one as to what you can do as a consumer. Not sure how a dealer can give you an install estimate or contract without doing a site inspection first. Nevertheless, I would ask for the pricing of each additional part and make sure no extra labor is included. I would tell him that $90 per elbow sounds a bit step and perhaps he could do better in price. Also inform him that you will be checking to make sure that everything he is billing you for is installed. Do not allow him to list the install as a "kit" plus a labor cost. I would want it itemized. Good luck.
  14. cristiansmom

    cristiansmom Member

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    When I purchased my stove and they wrote everything up the told me that when they come out to look at the house they might have to adjust the installation price depending on what he needs. They said he might need more or less of parts... That sounds like what has happened here. You were given an estimate on the install and parts and then when they came to your house to see where it's being set up and what they will need they realized they needed more elbows. Right?? That is normal and prices are high... My guy is coming this morning to check out before install next week so I will see if I need anything extra also...


    Debi
  15. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    I "walked and talked" like a person with construction knowledge, and the dealer (may have had nothing to do with how I ..talked) did a written estimate without coming to my home. The installer picked up the equipment (including the substitutions I got a rebate on) and came to my home to do the work. All went well, no extras needed, but it surely would have beef foolish economics for them to show up with three paid installers and not have the parts they needed. Seems like a risky way to do business...still it worked in my case. As mentioned earlier I agreed to buying a longer liner than needed to be sure it would be long enough. I wasn't about to go on the roof and drop a tape measure down the chimney to measure, even if this is the right way to do it. With the high cost of labor and travel, the dealer doing such a preliminary measurement would in itself add over $100 to the cost.
  16. ducker

    ducker Feeling the Heat

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    I have a hard time how or why he would have to add a couple of more elbows to an install. what type of install was it? Direct through wall? up chimney? Also the price overall doesn't sound that bad for the stove/install even with the additional cost.

    I could see them perhaps needing additional length of tubing, but elbows??!?
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