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Dell-Point Europa since 11-2006

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Kernel Klinker, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. Kernel Klinker

    Kernel Klinker New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Messages:
    18
    Loc:
    Hubbardston, Michigan
    Greetings burners.
    Heated with a Dell-Point Europa since 11-2006.
    Most posts in this forum, that I have seen, deal with pellets.
    Since the forum name includes "Corn Crib" here it comes!
    Used strictly corn for the first season (2005-2006), ran at recommended settings and always had problems.
    Had to clean the augers and burn tube often. FILLED with rock hard klinker
    Blew auger fuses causing F5 to lite.
    Basement install - 3" Duravent W/60" rise and 36" horizontal with termination cap.
    Had more than my share of trouble with this stove.
    Have learned that the natural draft created by running the chimney up instead of straight out causes klinkers.
    They all have small leaks that contribute to the problem.
    Dell-Point sends restrictor plates with new multifuel stoves.
    With only 5 feet of chimney, my stove has the smallest plate installed (1 1/4" ?)
    The manual is vague when it comes to explaining things and my dealer wasn't much help either.
    Am running out of corn so I'm mixing pellets 50/50 (3/4 ton Propellets starting in on Maeder Brothers)
    Runs like a champ now.
    I have ran on the highest output- 5- for weeks without shutting down.
    KK

    [​IMG]

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  2. EmaZ

    EmaZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    44
    Loc:
    Northern Indiana
    Hello Kernel Klinker,
    I would really be interested in finding out from you how you have gotten the Dell Point Europa to "run like a champ." I feel like I am beating my head against the wall, trying to get this apparatus to function. It has broken down repeatedly, to the point where last year FPI replaced the one I bought in 2006. This new one only worked for 2 and a half weeks recently before shutting down again with first F6 (blown fuse) readings and most recently E5 (power interruption).

    I FINALLY got 2 guys from the dealer to come out today and they told me that there was "a huge tar buildup" and that two of the bottom augurs were clogged, the ones over the ashpan. I didn't even know there were more augurs below the burn pot, I thought the augur was the one in the tube feeding the pellets. Now that I know I am supposed to be peering into the burn pot to clean it, I'm better off...but the instruction manual certainly did not explain clearly that I was supposed to do this. Also, why was I getting a "power interruption" reading if the problem was clogged augurs and tar buildup?

    My impression is that neither the dealer nor the "technical support" of FPI really know how to fix this stove and that they are all just "free styling" and feeding me a line until the stove breaks down again. I spent $5000 all told on this stove so I have a vested interest in getting it to work, but very little hope at this point.
  3. Kernel Klinker

    Kernel Klinker New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Messages:
    18
    Loc:
    Hubbardston, Michigan
    Technology can be good or bad.
    We both got the bad.
    Even if everything is right, the top ring will eventually warp, causing a combustion air leak.
    Ash bed level is hard to control with a leak - the augers will clinker up blowing fuses, and eventually the flighting on the augers burns up.
    The burn tube was too short on mine (manufacturing error).
    FPI sent me a new top ring and burn tube.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The stove ran great for a season.
    Then it warped again.
    I am told that the new Paromax stove parts can be retrofitted to the FPI stoves.
    The burn tube is threaded at both ends and screws into the burner.
    Then the top ring screws onto the burn tube- no more leaks.

    I got this advice from a dealer. Will try it next time the top ring warps. With the last cleaning (October startup till December) glued the top ring with Rutland stove cement. Will have to deal with the stuck on rock hard bits on the next disassembly.
    HF
  4. imacman

    imacman Guest

    For you Europa owners, before you totally flip out figuring these stoves out, I remembered a post from a couple of months ago by member "Franks"....he is (was?) a dealer of these stoves, and sort of the resident expert. I don't see the Europa line listed in his signature anymore, but he did give some info you may be able to use....it's the owner & maker of the stove's phone number. Here's a copy of the post from November by Franks:

    "Here is how to get fast (or somewhat fast but accurate) results if your dealer isnt being much of a help. Just call the guy who invented and manufactures your stove. Claude Lapointe. His number is (877) 419-9877 ext 221. He will sell you the parts direct and walk you thru the repairs/diagnoses. (If you can understand him thru the accent, eh?) ".

    Hope this helps.
  5. krooser

    krooser Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,440
    Loc:
    Waupaca, WI
    Wow...that IS a big stove!!!!!
  6. imacman

    imacman Guest

    And what's even nicer, is that you can hook it to your tractor or car, and take it with you, or to the barn.

    Or to the outhouse, for you guys up in Wisconsin.
  7. krooser

    krooser Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,440
    Loc:
    Waupaca, WI
    Yah... and we could paint dat ting Packer green and gold... and fill it wit bratwurst and go tailgating by all dose udder cheeseheads hey?

    Go Pack...

    Sorry about those Giants but WTF was up with the red/white uniforms?
  8. Fsappo

    Fsappo New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,551
    Loc:
    Central NY
    I removed the Europa from my sig because we no longer distribute them. We still do sell them in our showroom and its still one of my favorites. I did burn corn (12% moisture content) for a year in my showroom model. Only had to take the ash extraction assembly out once to clean it.

    To the person who did not know they had ash extraction augers under their burn pot. That falls squarely on your dealer and their lacking when it comes to education their customers prior to making a purchase.

    To the OP, if your corn is dry you should be able to burn it without mixing. You may also want to contact Claude in regards to this if you havent already. I have had zero customers botch up a burn pot so far.
  9. EmaZ

    EmaZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    44
    Loc:
    Northern Indiana
    I have a question for Kernel Klinker: you said "Dell Point sends restrictor plates with new stoves." What do these restrictor plates look like? Are they silver in color, about 7" square, with a hole in the middle and four holes, one in each corner?
    I ask because when they installed my replacement stove (the Dell Point Europa I bought in 2006 only ran for 2 winters, with rampant problems the 2nd year), the guys from the dealer left behind some stuff in a plastic bag. I have two silver plates here and I am wondering if they are the restrictor plates you mentioned.
    The next question will be, how to install them...that might be explained elsewhere on this site.
    Are RV sealant and Rutland stove cement sold at Lowe's or Menard's (midwest hardware stores)? I guess I'll find out.
    How long have you had your gravity wagon? Does it seal well at the top to keep out rodents?
    Thanks for your help. I am trying to regulate the ash extraction rate of my stove right now. I guess I just continue lowering the "combustion fan adjustment" and the "ash extraction" buttons on the control panel.
    Also, the door to the lower ash extraction chamber most definitely has an air leak. I tested it just now with a card and the card slipped right out. On another thread, member Irishman had some pretty involved instructions as to how to seal up this leak. Maintaining this stove certainly is complex!
  10. Irishman

    Irishman New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    Emma,

    You can tighten the seal of the fiberglass gasket of the ash compartment door by loosening the allen screw in the door handle, pressing against the flat latch the closes the door to the frame of the stove, thereby pushing the shaft further into the handle. Re-tighten the allen set screw and try latching the door again against the card. It should take a lot more resistance to pull it out. You may have to do this a couple if times to the right tightness. You don't want to have it too tight because you will then handle will turn without engaging the shaft. I know from experience on this one. If you used up all of the play on the shaft going into the handle, you may have to look into installing a new fiberglass rope to tighten the seal around the ash pit compartment.

    Both the high temp silicone and the Rutland stove cement are sold at Menards, Home Depot, Lowe's and most Ace Hardware stores.

    After the various fixes are in place on this stove, you should only have to clean and feed it, but cleaning is very important.
  11. EmaZ

    EmaZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    44
    Loc:
    Northern Indiana
    Thanks, I will try to put these instructions into practice. I am impressed with your photos on Iburncorn forum, of how you repaired the air leak yourself. That's great.
    What is the "air teardrop in ash area"?
    Also, the instructor's manual says that button # 11, on the lower right of the control panel, "manual feed," should never be used except to manually prime the augur. Isn't that the button you said to push in order to increase the fuel in the burn pot? Do you mean to hold it down until I hear the fuel pour down?
    Also, when you said you clean the glass with a paper towel, you meant that you clean the outside of the glass, right? I'm never supposed to open the burn pot chamber door while the stove is operating, right? I think my stove window has poor visibility because ash accumulates on the inside, not the outside.
    The stove is running today. The level of fuel in the burn pot looks very low, although I set the combustion fan and ash extraction settings down to 5. The heat setting is 03. The mini helic gauge setting is too low. I guess I'll wait to see what happens and then move the combustion/ash settings up.
    Thanks again.
  12. Irishman

    Irishman New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    The teardrop is a piece of metal that is essentially a slide cover that covers a 3/4" hole on the right rear of the ash compartment. Open the right side door and you will see a blank piece of metal that is held in place by two screws. Remove the screws and the remove the panel. There, you will see this tear drop. It should be covering the hole completely. If not slide it over the hole and tighten. Then, smear RTV around the edges of the teardrop. Reassemble and you've got that leak taken care of. This opening was put on the stove in case there wasn't enough combustion air getting to the burn pot. On the old Dell Point Europas and the FPI Europas, this needs to be sealed up. On the new Paromax stoves, it needs to be opened a crack for pellet burning because of the air tightness of the ash compartment.

    The Fuel Trim is an adjustment is not documented in the owner's manual. To access it, press and hold the Manual Feed button for about three seconds. The upper display will change to 0. Then press the Combustion Air + or - buttons to change the setting. I don't know why it wasn't a documented feature because it is very important to be able to micro-manage the amount of fuel getting into the pot. No extra pellets will be fed just by pressing the button. After the new setting takes hold after 20 or so seconds, it will either shorten or lengthen the amount of time the fuel auger turns, dependent upon your setting.

    I actually open the door very slowly while the stove is running to clean the glass with the paper towel. I take three sheets and fold them into 1/8 their full size to provide protection against a burn and work from the top down to keep the soot on the door ledge. Most people that I've talked to open the door on their stoves to clean the glass. You should be ready for a light flare up from the extra oxygen the stove gets when the door is opened. Not much smoke gets out of the stove because of the negative pressure. Do this with much caution. I don't think it's a big deal, but you need to pay close attention to where your limbs are in proximity to areas that will burn your skin. I thought people where crazy when I first heard that this was how they cleaned the glass, but when you think about it, the chance of an ember making its way out of the stove is pretty slim when compared to refueling a wood stove with logs.

    When I had my old Europa, I usually ran my ash extraction at 1 and my comb air at 6-7. This was at most burn levels 1-4. I never had to turn it up to 5. I would try to reduce your ash extraction by a couple of points at a time. I always found 1 was best because anything higher would take my ash bed down to nothing. Here are the suggested mini helic gauge readings for each burn level:


    Heat Inches Burn
    level W.C. lbs/hr.

    1 .10 - .15 1 - 1½
    2 .12 - .17 1½ - 2
    3 .15 - .20 2 - 2½
    4 .20 - .26 3
    5 .24 - .30 4
  13. Fsappo

    Fsappo New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,551
    Loc:
    Central NY
    Great post Irishman. Very imformative for Europa users
  14. EmaZ

    EmaZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    44
    Loc:
    Northern Indiana
    Thank you, Irishman for this helpful information. I have often wondered about that mystery door that lead to a blank sheet of metal. It's good to know its purpose. I will keep trying to work up my nerve to open up that door while there's a flame...or else I'll take the coward's way out and settle for a grubby window. And I will continue to experiment with those combustion/ash settings.
    I did call 604-946-5155 (manufacturer phone number, provided by Claude LaPointe) The person I talked to said that the upper augur motor assembly is supposed to be somewhat flexible and have some play in it. I somehow thought it had to be screwed in tightly and that it had something wrong with it.
    I know that might seem like a trivial question...but I do not know enough about the stove to know exactly what is the optimum installation. It's too cold to go outside and the stove gives me something to do! I appreciate all the help.

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