Disappointing Weekend With A Hearthsone Homestead

[Battenkiller]

We visited some friends at their camp in the Adirondacks this weekend. First thing in the door I notice there is a new Hearthstone sitting where an old, unused Franklin-type stove used to be. They were very pleased when I commented on it, and the wife started to talk glowingly about how happy they were with it. The small room it was in was nice and toasty with a small fire in the early coaling stage. The husband is a pretty bright guy, but didn't know that much about it, couldn't even remember the make or model, just that it was recommended to him and he bought it and had it professionally installed and was very happy with it.

We partied outside by a big bonfire until about 2 AM, when the frosty cold froze our backsides enough that we called it a night. We went back into the house and were expecting the house to be warm, but our room was cold as ice. We snuggled our drunken bodies under several comforters and passed out until morning.

When I woke up at 8:00, the fire was already going, but the room had dropped to 56ºF by the big digital thermometer they had on the wall. Puzzling, because even though there was a hard frost, there was no wind to drive the heated air out of the house. OK, whatever... let's get it warm again. The stove had a small bed of coals started, and every now and then the wife would come out and put a fresh split on. Every time she did this, smoke came pouring out of the door opening. An hour later, the room was all the way up to 59º. Then by 10 AM it was up the 63º. 2+ hours to raise the room temp 7º.

I started to play with the thing. I found the air control on the left side and pushed it all the way back to see what would happen. After about five minutes I couldn't see any difference. I opened the door a crack to let in more air. Nothing. I slowly opened it up more and smoke came billowing out. I then downloaded the owner's manual to my phone and saw that the draft had been in the open position the entire time. I grabbed a couple splits of some very seasoned cherry they had on their enclosed porch and threw them on top. This time there was enough fuel in there and you could see it was starting to take off. I waited about 5 minutes and then pushed the air lever back. For the first time, I saw some secondary action going on, but it was short lived. I opened the air back up all the way, but the fire failed to respond.

By 11 AM I finally got the stove percolating away. No jets of flame coming out of most of the manifold holes, but some nice purplish ghost-like flames dancing several inches above the wood and sliding up the slope of the manifold. So now... where's the heat? It was nudging up to 70º by then, and it was up to 73º by noon... a full four hours after it was first lit.

So what do you think is going on with this stove? I know it has a marginal chimney, but the stove was started when the outside temps were in the upper 20s. It actually seemed to draw a lot better later on in the morning when the outside air was 30º warmer.

The most disappointing thing for me was the heat output. Even when I finally had a decent fire going in it with OK secondaries, there was no feeling of 50K BTU coming off this stove. The room it is in is actually quite tiny and I thought the stove would be way over-sized for it. Wasn't the case while I was there. Four hours to get that small room up to 73º? My 50K BTU stove would have gotten that room uninhabitable in less that 1/2 hour.

What could be wrong? Why wouldn't that thing throw out heat? Unfortunately, no stove or flue temps to report (no thermometers), just my experience with what a stove that size should do in a small room. Any Hearthstone users have a similar problem? Are the air passages that restrictive in these stoves?

Chimney is a short (maybe 16') exterior masonry chimney with a 8" clay-tile flue and a cement block chase. There is a short vertical run of double-wall pipe (for clearance reasons) and one 90º elbow before it goes into the thimble. This is considered adequate in the owner's manual. I think another 4-5' would help a bit, but I wouldn't think that would provide a night and day difference. Again, even with a decent amount of wood and flame in there, there wasn't a lot of heat cranking out of it. I'm puzzled.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Wow. That is amazing. For sure you would know if the wood is good or not so that should rule that out. That size chimney should be adequate so it only leaves something with the stove or lack of draft. How about the cleaning of the chimney?

 

[oldspark]

That sounds like fun.
"We snuggled our drunken bodies under several comforters and passed out until morning".

 

[DanCorcoran]

House temps would depend on lot on how well insulated the house is. As you point out, stove temps would be the best indicator. Does that Hearthstone need an 8" flue? My Shelburne manual says to use 6" for better draft. Sounds as though the draft is the problem, but I'll defer to all who have knowledge of the Homestead itself, which I don't.

 

[Highbeam]

The homestead is a decent sized stove too, not like the smaller tribute that is often overfired. Too bad you didn't have stove temps, we would then know if you have a stove problem or a house problem. Sounds like a stove problem since you just couldn't get it up to temp. It takes a while to figure out how to run a stone stove. It's not like the iron stoves. The most likely problem was the splits were too big. If you can't fit 5 or six splits in there then they are too big for trying to heat up the stone. Once at cruising temp you can use the larger ones.

Stone stoves are not very good at bringing up a cold house in a hurry. They are very good at keeping a warm house warm. This is why you need a large enough stove to give you a long enough burn time that you don't need to restart the stove from scratch to heat a cold room.

You are reporting temps in another room right? The stove room will always heat up faster than a distant bedroom with a radiant stove.

Anyway, those are some ideas. I would not recommend anything smaller than the heritage or even homestead for anybody in any size house trying to heat 24/7.

 

[oldspark]

I read an article a while back that stated a soap stone stove was a poor choice for a cabin for the reasons Highbeam said.

 

[Battenkiller]

Wow. That is amazing. For sure you would know if the wood is good or not so that should rule that out. That size chimney should be adequate so it only leaves something with the stove or lack of draft. How about the cleaning of the chimney?

Stove is brand-new this season, with a pro install. I'll assume they looked at and/or cleaned the chimney. I supposed they could have gunked it up already, but this is only a weekend camp, not a full-time residence. And I don't think it was used all that much since it was a pretty warm summer. I noticed the guy had about a cord of unseasoned paper birch and cherry stacked up behind his patio area that he could have been burning earlier in the season, but when I asked him about it he said, "Oh, no, that's for next year", so he at least understands using dry wood.

 

[Battenkiller]

I read an article a while back that stated a soap stone stove was a poor choice for a cabin for the reasons Highbeam said.

Well, I could understand that to a degree, but we're talking four hours and the stove wasn't even that hot yet. I would guess by feel that it was about 400º on top at that point, and hotter on the glass. The sides were a bit hotter than the top, maybe because of the insulation above the manifold, not sure.

Other folks here with Fireviews report much faster increases in stove temps than this, even though the Woodstock stoves have thicker stone. So far, nothing I've come across on this forum has indicated four hours to get a 200º rise in temp (I'll assume the stove had already started out at least at 200ºF in the morning).

 

[Fsappo]

Poor draft would be my guess. Toss a 6" insulated liner in that chimley fluke and let the fun begin.

 

[begreen]

The stove sounds draft challenged by the combination of 3 - 90 deg turns in the smoke path and out into a cold chimney. Effectively, the stove is running on about a 6 ft flue and not getting enough air. I'd also question the choice of the stove in the cabin because I think of soapstone stoves more as 24/7 heaters due to the lag time it takes to get the mass of the stove up to temperature. In this application my preference would be a steel or cast iron stove.

To be fair though, it sounds like someone should have put in a few splits before heading out to the bonfire. How was the cabin temp the next night?

 

[madison]

---"...exterior masonry chimney with a 8” clay-tile flue and a cement block chase. ..." ----

Opening the door and smoke comes out, plus no response in the firebox, Obstruction/restriction in draft vs poor draft would be the differential diagnosis. Maybe some 'coons were stuck in the block chimney? but I would bet on the short, exterior, masonry chimney ie poor draft as the cause, (you would have smelled the burning raccoons)

 

[tutu_sue]

+1 on needing an insulated liner all the way up an exterior chimney. That chimney is cold.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

take a draft reading- the pdf for acceptable range is in HS backoffice

sounds chimney related

 

[Battenkiller]

It takes a while to figure out how to run a stone stove. It's not like the iron stoves. The most likely problem was the splits were too big. If you can't fit 5 or six splits in there then they are too big for trying to heat up the stone. Once at cruising temp you can use the larger ones.

The splits I put on were about 4-5" across, but I think you may be right, at least in the beginning. At 8 AM when I first saw the stove, there didn't seem to be a deep enough bed of coals for the size splits she was putting on. Still, I've burned an awful lot of cherry over the years, and I know if it's good and dry it will ignite pretty well. I should have mentioned there were a lot of ashes in it, but the doghouse seemed unobstructed. Once I finally got it going, you could see the fire intensify right down in front of the doghouse, so air was moving through OK and there was lots of flame by then, just not lots of heat. I didn't want to back the air all the way off because I wasn't familiar with the stove. That might have kept more heat in the stove, but with no really strong secondaries showing, I was afraid I might dirty up someone else's flue, so I just left it mostly open.

The most enlightening thing about it was how happy the whole family was with the stove. "We've had it all the way to 80º once!" Whoop-de-do. Didn't say that, just thought to myself these folks have no clue what it feels to be in a room with a fair size stove blasting out heat at full output. They want to move into the place in a couple years when the husband retires. He told me he thought he'd be able to heat it OK... with the addition of two vented propane heaters and the electric baseboards. And I'm sure he's correct. :lol:

 

[begreen]

Switch out the 90's for 45's, double-wall connector tied to a 6" insulated liner and I think they will have a decent working stove.

 

[gyrfalcon]

The most enlightening thing about it was how happy the whole family was with the stove. "We've had it all the way to 80º once!" Whoop-de-do. Didn't say that, just thought to myself these folks have no clue what it feels to be in a room with a fair size stove blasting out heat at full output.

We stone stove owners are obviously just more refined than thee. And some folks (like me) start looking for the air-conditioner when room temp goes up to 80. Each to his own.

Stone stoves, particularly ones on the smaller side, just don't get as hot as the equivalent size cast or steel. The trade-off is they stay hot longer. But the heat is certainly a heck of a lot more, um, gentle than one o' those cast stoves "blasting out heat."

Highbeam says above that the Tributes get overfired a lot, and I'd sure love to know how. The highest mine has ever read was a little over 500, and that was only once or twice and only for a few minutes.

All that said, I have no trouble getting the heat in the big front room of my old house up 20 degrees in about an hour on a cold day, but I do have to use lots of small 3 and even 2-inch splits of high-btu wood (like beech or apple or black birch, rock maple and red oak won't do it).

 

[Backwoods Savage]

The homestead is a decent sized stove too, not like the smaller tribute that is often overfired. Too bad you didn't have stove temps, we would then know if you have a stove problem or a house problem. Sounds like a stove problem since you just couldn't get it up to temp. It takes a while to figure out how to run a stone stove. It's not like the iron stoves. The most likely problem was the splits were too big. If you can't fit 5 or six splits in there then they are too big for trying to heat up the stone. Once at cruising temp you can use the larger ones.

Stone stoves are not very good at bringing up a cold house in a hurry. They are very good at keeping a warm house warm. This is why you need a large enough stove to give you a long enough burn time that you don't need to restart the stove from scratch to heat a cold room.

You are reporting temps in another room right? The stove room will always heat up faster than a distant bedroom with a radiant stove.

Anyway, those are some ideas. I would not recommend anything smaller than the heritage or even homestead for anybody in any size house trying to heat 24/7.

Here we go again Highbeam! Yes, it does take a little bit longer to bring the temperature of a cold room up using the stone stoves but it is sort of like saying that burning white ash is not as good as oak. That statement is also true....but misleading. Oak is better for sure, but not as much better than most folks seem to think. Given the choice, I'll take the oak but I surely would never turn down white ash. Well, not now for sure as I have so many dead ones here.

As for me, I'll keep on "taking a bit longer" to heat the house if it is cold, but I won't suffer for sure. We get the heat up pretty fast with our stone stove, thank you.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I started to play with the thing. I found the air control on the left side and pushed it all the way back to see what would happen. After about five minutes I couldn't see any difference. I opened the door a crack to let in more air. Nothing. I slowly opened it up more and smoke came billowing out.

Sounds like a bad draft.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I read an article a while back that stated a soap stone stove was a poor choice for a cabin for the reasons Highbeam said.

I read that article too. It also said that soapstone stoves are unattractive and a fad. It said it right at the end.

 

[oldspark]

I read an article a while back that stated a soap stone stove was a poor choice for a cabin for the reasons Highbeam said.

I read that article too. It also said that soapstone stoves are unattractive and a fad. It said it right at the end.

I guess I do not remember that part, they liked the soap stone stoves they just said it took longer to get a cold room up to temp and it was not a good choice for a cabin that you visited only on weekends. Or are yu being cute?

 

[BrowningBAR]

I read an article a while back that stated a soap stone stove was a poor choice for a cabin for the reasons Highbeam said.

I read that article too. It also said that soapstone stoves are unattractive and a fad. It said it right at the end.

I guess I do not remember that part, they liked the soap stone stoves they just said it took longer to get a cold room up to temp and it was not a good choice for a cabin that you visited only on weekends. Or are yu being cute?

Redd is notoriously anti-soapstone. If it ain't a Pacific Energy Summit, then it ain't worth burning.

 

[Battenkiller]

It also said that soapstone stoves are unattractive and a fad.

Judging by the beautiful old 19th century soapstone stoves I saw at the Woodstock factory, it's a fad that's lasted a bit longer than the Hula hoop. ;-P

 

[oldspark]

I read an article a while back that stated a soap stone stove was a poor choice for a cabin for the reasons Highbeam said.

I read that article too. It also said that soapstone stoves are unattractive and a fad. It said it right at the end.

I guess I do not remember that part, they liked the soap stone stoves they just said it took longer to get a cold room up to temp and it was not a good choice for a cabin that you visited only on weekends. Or are yu being cute?

Redd is notoriously anti-soapstone. If it ain't a Pacific Energy Summit, then it ain't worth burning.

He's got a summit, I'm selling mine then. :cheese:

 

[Todd]

It's the chimney. I use to burn a Homestead into an outside 6x10 masonry chimney and it acted similar. Once I relined with a 5.5 liner it was like night and day difference.

 

[Battenkiller]

It's the chimney. I use to burn a Homestead into an outside 6x10 masonry chimney and it acted similar. Once I relined with a 5.5 liner it was like night and day difference.

I think you and others are right, just checking in for confirmation with other owners. The owner's manual says go with an 8" tile flue if used in a masonry chimney, but it sure seemed to lack enough draft to me. I did mention putting a liner in, but the comment received a quizzical look from them both. Sadly, I suspect these folks will be perfectly happy with the sub-par performance of this stove, even while they are paying hundreds a month in propane and electric to "supplement" it.