Disappointing Weekend With A Hearthsone Homestead

[oldspark]

It's the chimney. I use to burn a Homestead into an outside 6x10 masonry chimney and it acted similar. Once I relined with a 5.5 liner it was like night and day difference.

I think you and others are right, just checking in for confirmation with other owners. The owner's manual says go with an 8" tile flue if used in a masonry chimney, but it sure seemed to lack enough draft to me. I did mention putting a liner in, but the comment received a quizzical look from them both. Sadly, I suspect these folks will be perfectly happy with the sub-par performance of this stove, even while they are paying hundreds a month in propane and electric to "supplement" it.

A 8 inch square tile is a lot different than a 8 inch round one in the way it functions.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I read an article a while back that stated a soap stone stove was a poor choice for a cabin for the reasons Highbeam said.

I read that article too. It also said that soapstone stoves are unattractive and a fad. It said it right at the end.

I guess I do not remember that part, they liked the soap stone stoves they just said it took longer to get a cold room up to temp and it was not a good choice for a cabin that you visited only on weekends. Or are yu being cute?

Redd is notoriously anti-soapstone. If it ain't a Pacific Energy Summit, then it ain't worth burning.

He's got a summit, I'm selling mine then. :cheese:

Relax. You can keep you Summit - I've got the Spectrum Classic.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I think from a cold start, 45 minutes and my Homestead is up to full temperature and the backed way down, and by then the living room would be getting uncomfortable for most humans if not for the fan blowing in from the dining room.. I say most humans because at 80 degree room temp and 550 stove top, my wife will be in the way of me operating the air control, hugging the stone.. wearing a sweater.

My bet is poor draft. the manual advises against any 90's if I remember, and then a dump in to a cold 8" square flue, instead of an insulated 6" chimney, that sounds like it's at the minimum recommended height..

Also, I might add.. professional installation only means so much. It's acknowledged right here that many members have worked with professionals who didn't know squat.

 

[wingarcher]

We have had a Homestead for a couple seasons now, just starting the third. My .02:

Regardless of the style of fire you want to build- a 3 stick (really the minimum, unless burning chunks of 2x4 and other trash) or a 4 stick, or a stuff it full and go all night- BUILD A FIRE AND BE DONE WITH IT.

My beloved tends towards what the OP described his friends doing- get some kindling going.... then add a stick and hope to convert that to coals.... then another couple sticks..... by now it's 10:30am and the stove is up to 250 degrees and ...... well, you get the picture.

If properly constructed with sufficient kindling, a stuff it full fire can be built in one go and then left to burn with the air full open. Watch it closely and as soon as the front faces of the front two sticks flash over in flame, count to ten and shut the air down. If you timed it right you get big secondary combustion and very little primary, and tons of heat. Stack temp should be 350 at least when you shut it down (at about neck high on the pipe).

Another issue with the Homestead is the location of the primary air jet in the stove. If you screw up your fire, the front most bottom stick will cause the air to go up and over, instead of down and under the stack of sticks. I find fires difficult to get right when the stove is empty of ashes because of this. About half full of ashes, you rake coals and ash into two heaps, running N/S one on either side of the primary intake. This creates a tunnel under the sticks inline with the air. I feel you pretty much have to have the front bottom stick sitting up on the little rectangular tunnel the primary air comes through to ensure air gets into the middle of the stack of fuel.

Ok, more like $.03, and worthless if the flue is blocked by a raccoon, designed badly, wet wood, etc.

N

 

[lazeedan]

Draft issues would be my guess as well.

 

[Battenkiller]

A 8 inch square tile is a lot different than a 8 inch round one in the way it functions.

I know, but on page 28, they specifically recommend:

Connecting to a Masonry Chimney

Consider two primary elements when connecting your stove to a masonry chimney: the chimney itself and thethimble where the stovepipe connects to the chimney. Use only Code approved masonry chimneys with a flue liner.

Before connecting to a masonry chimney, hire a professional to examine the chimney for cracks, loose mortar, and other signs of deterioration and blockage. If the chimney needs repairs, complete them before installing and using your stove. Do not install your stove until the chimney is safe for use.

Make sure the chimney’s clean-out is complete and working properly. To avoid a loss in draft, the clean-out must close off completely. If allowed to cool, your stove will perform poorly and creosote will build up in the chimney.

Make sure the size of the chimney’s flue is appropriate for this stove and that it is not too large. Use a masonry chimney with an 8" x 8" (203 mm x 203 mm) tile size for best results. An oversize flue contributes to the accumulation of creosote.


Use the following checklist to ensure that your masonry chimney meets these minimum requirements:


Chimney wall construction

o Brick or modular block at least 4′′ (102 mm) thick.

o A rubble or stone wall at least 12′′ (305 mm) thick.


Flue liner

o Minimum thickness of 5/8′′ (16 mm)

o Installed with refractory mortar.

o At least 1′′ (25 mm) air space.

o An equivalent flue liner must be a listed chimney liner system meeting type HT requirements or other approved material.


Interior chimney requirements

o At least 2′′ (51 mm) clearance to combustible structure.

o Fire stops must be installed at the spaces where the chimney passes through floors and the ceiling.

o Installation must be 2′′ (51 mm) from the chimney.


Exterior chimney requirements

o At least 1′′ (25 mm) clearance to combustible structure.


Chimney height requirements (see illustration)

o At least 3 feet (0.9 meters) higher than the highest part of the roof opening through which it passes.
o At least 2 feet (0.6 meters) higher than any part of the roof within 10 feet (3 meters) measured horizontally from the top of the chimney.
o This stove requires a minimum chimney height of 13 feet (4 meters). The maximum allowable chimney height is 30 feet (9 meters).

So, it seems that the installers at least read the chimney requirements. Also, Be Green, there was only one 90º elbow, not three as you mentioned.

I have an 8" x 8" square tile flue, and I don't have any problem with draft. Right from the beginning of a fire, my flue pulls strong and hard. I never get even a puff of smoke from my doors or from the top load door. Yes, my chimney is taller, but height is not as significant a factor as some folks think it is. Adding an extra 4' to my friend's chimney probably won't fix the problem all by itself. Masonry chimneys don't benefit as much from increasing the height as do insulated chimneys because they have that much more length to cool the flue gases. It can be nearly a wash in the end.

I think wingarcher made some very good points. In watching my friends use their stove, I saw the same kind of practices they would use on a campfire. Add a stick here and there to try to feed it without putting it out. They haven't yet discovered the power of containment and controlled air flow with a stove fire. The thing did perk up a lot after I started to play with it, but I didn't want to roast them out of their house on a 65º sunny day. Maybe with a full load the stove is a different animal... or at least an animal of some sort. For most of the time I was there, it acted more like a cold fish.

Below are pics of the exterior chimney and of the stove install.

 

[DanCorcoran]

That chimney doesn't seem to comply with the 2-foot/10-foot guideline...is that yours or theirs?

 

[thinkxingu]

I love our Homestead--full heat in 45 minutes, not as fast as our steel but much more even and gentle.
We've heat our 1,200 square feet with 30-year-old doors and windows in single-digit temps with no problem. Must be a draft, wood, or clogged stove issue.

S

 

[Battenkiller]

That chimney doesn't seem to comply with the 2-foot/10-foot guideline...is that yours or theirs?

No, that's theirs. Mine is almost at the ridge line of the roof. Yes, that's the first thing I noticed, although it's not as bad as it looks in the picture. The perspective is off, but that was the best place I could get a view of the top. I was really just looking to see if it was smoking (obviously, it wasn't). Anyway, it wasn't an issue the day I was there since the air was quite still.

Must be a draft, wood, or clogged stove issue.

The clogged stove issue was what I was most concerned about. Is there any way something like a shipping bracket under the manifold didn't get removed? This is something that would happen to me....

For example, I have a real nice air filtration unit in my shop. It serves double duty as a filter and as an air circulator in the stove room. Last year I noticed it was not blowing out much air, so I decided to clean the inner filter. It was the first time doing it. When I removed it for cleaning, there were several styrofoam shipping blocks still inside blocking the flow. The first page of the owner's manual clearly tells you to take out the inner filter and remove the blocks before using the unit, but who reads the instruction manual on a fan? :roll: :red:

Clean filter, plus no blocks in the way of the air flow... you should see how it blows now!

 

[branchburner]

Chimney height requirements (see illustration)

o At least 3 feet (0.9 meters) higher than the highest part of the roof opening through which it passes.
o At least 2 feet (0.6 meters) higher than any part of the roof within 10 feet (3 meters) measured horizontally from the top of the chimney.
o This stove requires a minimum chimney height of 13 feet (4 meters). The maximum allowable chimney height is 30 feet (9 meters).

Not even close.

 

[Battenkiller]

Chimney height requirements (see illustration)

o At least 3 feet (0.9 meters) higher than the highest part of the roof opening through which it passes.
o At least 2 feet (0.6 meters) higher than any part of the roof within 10 feet (3 meters) measured horizontally from the top of the chimney.
o This stove requires a minimum chimney height of 13 feet (4 meters). The maximum allowable chimney height is 30 feet (9 meters).

Not even close.

Maybe not, but like I said, there was no wind at all during the time I was messing with the stove, so that wasn't the reason for the poor performance. It's not my stove and it's not my camp. I advised them to get a liner and to go higher with the chimney. Beyond that, I still want to remain friends, so I shut my mouth and moved on. Maybe they can learn to live with the smoke. ;-)

 

[gyrfalcon]

Chimney height requirements (see illustration)

o At least 3 feet (0.9 meters) higher than the highest part of the roof opening through which it passes.
o At least 2 feet (0.6 meters) higher than any part of the roof within 10 feet (3 meters) measured horizontally from the top of the chimney.
o This stove requires a minimum chimney height of 13 feet (4 meters). The maximum allowable chimney height is 30 feet (9 meters).

Not even close.

Maybe not, but like I said, there was no wind at all during the time I was messing with the stove, so that wasn't the reason for the poor performance. It's not my stove and it's not my camp. I advised them to get a liner and to go higher with the chimney. Beyond that, I still want to remain friends, so I shut my mouth and moved on. Maybe they can learn to live with the smoke. ;-)

Maybe they could get their installer to come back and figure out why they're having a smoke problem? Getting the stove up to a reasonable temperature in a reasonable amount of time is one thing, maybe operator error, but smoke pouring out means something is wrong for sure. It took me two years to figure out how to get the best out of my stove, but I've never, not once, had so much as wisp of smoke blow back at me under any conditions.

 

[precaud]

That sounds like fun.
"We snuggled our drunken bodies under several comforters and passed out until morning".

Fun? To each they're own...