Does an insert need a flue liner?

[tfdchief]

It is not a matter of whether a clay tile lined chimney vs a SS liner is better. Its the application. There is nothing wrong with a clay tile lined masonry chimney but when used with a wood stove, especially an insert dumping into it, it just isn't the best situation. A free standing stove with stove pipe into a clay lined masonry chimney may be just fine. Just depends on the application and the individual setup. Listen to the chimney sweep. He is looking at your specific setup and is recommending a liner. So you probably need one

 

[webby3650]

Clay has been used as a liner inside chimneys since. . . well, since chimneys were invented. Clay liners hardly need me to defend them.

They do just fine in a chimney with a stove hooked to the flue, assuming its in good repair.
With an insert things change. It's not that the clay can't handle the job. The issue is that the clay is WAY oversized for the appliance, and the smoke chamber greatly affects the function of the appliance. The insert is dumping smoke into a massive area with lots of residence time and turbulence. Causing lots of dangerous creosote build up. It's a nasty combination! It's a real mess, and should be avoided.

 

[tfdchief]

They do just fine in a chimney with a stove hooked to the flue, assuming its in good repair.
With an insert things change. It's not that the clay can't handle the job. The issue is that the clay is WAY oversized for the appliance, and the smoke chamber greatly affects the function of the appliance. The insert is dumping smoke into a massive area with lots of residence time and turbulence. Causing lots of dangerous creosote build up. It's a nasty combination! It's a real mess, and should be avoided.

Well said!

 

[_CY_]

Sorry if this has already been asked before, but I was dropping some wood off at a friends yesterday and noticed that her insert had no flue liner running up her terracotta interior/brick exterior chimney.

She said that when she bought the house, the stove had already been installed and she had been burning it constantly, every winter for 25 years without problem.

The only reason I bring it up now is that, after a chimney sweep cleaned her chimney, he mentioned that she needed a new liner (as if there was one there in the first place).

I am not licensed to advise anyone on wood burning although I've installed my own free standing stove/chimney system.

Is it safe or normal for people to run an insert up through the chimney of an existing fire place (without a liner)?

It seems so to me but I would trust the collective opinion of this group.

really amazed no one has mentioned this .. if insert has been used for 25 years then we are talking several generations back wood stove.
some inserts back then were designed to vent direct into fireplace and didn't provide for a liner hookup.

so it may not be possible to hook a liner up to her insert .. provided sweep is honest and competent ..
perhaps sweep should be contacted for more details. then what sweep alleges can be double checked.

 

[begreen]

There are adapters for this purpose.

 

[mellow]

Not to mention at 15ft she would need an 8" liner for that old smoke dragon.

 

[_CY_]

There are adapters for this purpose.

really surprised that anyone would offer adapters to fit an out of production 25+ year old insert
an adapter to work properly would almost have to be model specific. compounded by all the different models out there ..

 

[bholler]

we custom fabricate them when needed.

 

[_CY_]

we custom fabricate them when needed.

seems custom fab adapters would be the logical option .. that is if costs justifies upgrade.
to me it'd be hard to justify paying $$$ upgrade a 25+ year old stove ..

 

[bholler]

lots of people still like their old stoves and we don't charge that much to make one if we are doing the liner to they are not complicated.

 

[Charles1981]

I couple of my neighbors run direct connects to 8x8 and 10x10 clay liners. One guy even has a slammer. They have been burning wood for 20+ years and thought I was crazy to put in a SS liner when I had an almost brand new clay flue liner installed (previous owners had just re-lined chimney). They also think it is crazy I try to stay 1-2 years ahead of wood and only want to burn 1yr+ seasoned wood.

Anyway. Point being It is and has been ok to use an appropriately sized clay flue liner directly connected for quite some time and still remains so.

However....these are also the guys that think a small chimney fire self cleans the chimney as well for them.

The 8x8 direct connect seems to run the best of them all. The guys with 10x10 liners are always complaining about poor draft when it is over 35-40 degrees.

I would NEVER burn without at SS liner. But many others would. and Technically as long as it is directly connected I think it is still to code.

I may be wrong but i do think slammer installs without the liner going past the first flue tile is not code anymore.

 

[smokedragon]

what do you mean they do not clay tile are liners according to every building code I have ever seen. They work fine. Are they as good as ss? No but they work. In this case those liners are not doing any good because they are not sized right and the stove is not connected to them but to say clay tiles are not liners is just wrong I am sorry.

This is my issue right here......most fireplaces have large clay liners (13 x 13). When the smoke leaves the pipe that leads to the first clay tile, it expands rapidly. This causes it to cool rapidly. This causes a big mess of creosote. So instead of having a mess of creosote in the top 2 - 3 feet and on your chimney cap, you have it 1/3 of the way up from your stove. That transition area is impossible to clean.

I can't disagree with you, as it is legal. If the clay tile is in good shape, it is safe.

But long term, you are asking for a chimney fire.

If someone wants to burn 24/7, I could not install an insert any way except to line 100%.

 

[bholler]

I agree with you smoke dragon I would never install one any other way either but there are lots of stoves hooked up to 8 buy 8 liners that work very well. I just took acception to the blanket statement that clay was not a suitable liner.

 

[HeatsTwice]

The type of stove is : Glacier Bay.

I don't know the model number but there are pictures of a similar one here (this is not the one in question):

http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=1&weiid=4856329&lang=En

 

[tfdchief]

Any stove can be direct connected. Adapters are widely available, model specific. and has already been posted, there are many places who will custom make anything you need or want. Although the old smoke dragons were originally speced to spill into the fire box, if you are going to continue burning them, there is absolutely NO reason not to line the chimney and direct connect them. The difference is remarkable. Trust me, I have have been there and done that.