Dropped a tree into another tree

[wahoowad]

Noticed a dead oak this summer on my heavily wooded lot. Maybe 16" at the base. The upper portion *might* hit the house if it falls the wrong way, but it had a tiny little lean going in the other direction so I felt OK dropping it. I notched it to try and get it to fall in an open area between two larger oaks, but it fell into the branches of one of them and stayed there. Damn!

Pushing and rocking it didn't help even though there was a lot of give and sway with the branches. I was not close enough to put a long rope on it and give it a nudge with the truck. I stood there a long time thinking through options. No options seemed 100% safe so I went with what felt the most safe and offered me the most space to escape. The tree had been 90% severed about 24" above ground but it did not fall far enough to break the remaining uncut portion. I cut through it, standing off to the side. I hoped that might free up something but the end just sat there resting on the stump. I put my saw aside and pushed the end off the stump. It dropped to the ground but did not cause the tree to fall out of the other tree's branches. Pushed and rocked some more - nope. Decided to cut about 3' off the bottom - the new end swung down to the ground but the tree stayed. Very surprising because the branches looked ready to let go at any minute and had a lot of give in them. Just not enough. Cut another 3' section off the end and she still stayed up. This time the pushing and swaying brought it down.

What would you have done?

 

[BrotherBart]

I have done it that way many a time. "Leaners" are a pain in backside and scary. Most of the time ya end up taking them down one section at a time like you did. I did one here by the house last summer.

One thing I have done before is cut most of the way through the backside of the thing about five feet off the ground (dangerous because of where you have to stand). I then attach a chain and either my garden tractor of a come-a-long to it and pull it in half sideways. Dangerous as hell but it works.

 

[nshif]

Ive done the same myself on smaller trees. Larger trees (over 2') I try to get the winch cable around it as high as I can and run it to a block at the base of a tree and yank it down. Nice and safe as Im 75' away.

 

[wahoowad]

Yes, Dylan, I hadn't considered that. This red oak was probably dead 1 year or so. I definately noticed much more moisture in the lower logs than the upper sections. It was probably very bottom heavy.

On a different tangent - I saw no evidence of rot or bug infestation to suggest what killed this tree. There are plenty of other healthy looking trees nearby. The canopy was not thick enough to think this tree didn't get enough light. It is a flat area and nothing is near it to think the root system might have been damaged. It had that usual red oak smell (someone suggested it was like a drunk's vomit) but just a little more sour.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yes, Dylan, I hadn't considered that. This red oak was probably dead 1 year or so. I definately noticed much more moisture in the lower logs than the upper sections. It was probably very bottom heavy.

On a different tangent - I saw no evidence of rot or bug infestation to suggest what killed this tree. There are plenty of other healthy looking trees nearby. The canopy was not thick enough to think this tree didn't get enough light. It is a flat area and nothing is near it to think the root system might have been damaged. It had that usual red oak smell (someone suggested it was like a drunk's vomit) but just a little more sour.

90% chance the Gypsy Moths got it.

 

[jabush]

Yes, Dylan, I hadn't considered that. This red oak was probably dead 1 year or so. I definately noticed much more moisture in the lower logs than the upper sections. It was probably very bottom heavy.

On a different tangent - I saw no evidence of rot or bug infestation to suggest what killed this tree. There are plenty of other healthy looking trees nearby. The canopy was not thick enough to think this tree didn't get enough light. It is a flat area and nothing is near it to think the root system might have been damaged. It had that usual red oak smell (someone suggested it was like a drunk's vomit) but just a little more sour.

90% chance the Gypsy Moths got it.

That's my vote.

Also WW, I would have handled the hanger just the way you did. One section at a time.

 

[Eric Johnson]

The sectional approach is, IMO, probably the best approach if there's no other way to winch, pull, twist or otherwise get it down.

Having a cant hook or a peavey handy is a good way to release hung-up trees, especially if the butt is still on the stump (though completely detatched). Just watch your feet. If you don't have a cant hook, sometimes you can bore-cut a hole in or through the tree trunk, stick a sapling or other sturdy piece of wood in there, and then try to crank it over by pulling on the lever.

My dad used to keep a cant-hook mounted on a very long (probably 6 foot) black locust pole which he called "El Ultimo." A tree would have to be hung up pretty damn good not to succumb to that.

One more note on sectional cutting: If the tree doesn't fall during the course of making your cuts, eventually it will wind up almost vertical again. If you're lucky, you'll be able to push it down, though usually in the opposite direction that it was leaning. You just want to be very careful.

 

[kevinlp]

I had a hanger one time myself. We recut it twice only to have it continue hanging, just a little shorter. To get it down, we cut a notch then placed a rope around the tree above the notch and tied said rope to the back of a vehicle. Then drove forward pulling open the notch which took the tree down.

 

[Gibbonboy]

I usually section them down to vertical, then pull them over with a winch or comealong. I have bad flashbacks when I hang up a tree, don't want another skull fracture or worse. I cut a lot of "pole" trees, 8-10 inch base, very tall with no branches due to overcrowding. Thinning them is a pain, they seem to gravitate towards each other. If I have bigger stuff to fell, I'll usually clear a path first. Rather sacrifice a few smaller trees than have a big monster hung up.

I mounted a deep-cycle battery in a $6 case from Wallyworld onto a cheap HF handtruck. I can take my 12v winch and battery into the woods and use that to move things around as I need. Slow, but safer and easier. I got the winch from HF for 39 bucks on sale.

 

[Eric Johnson]

How do you aim your trees, GB?

 

[suematteva]

As Eric mentioned the canthook is very useful,,I always bring mine along, from just rolling logs, to getting out a pinched bar or rolling a tree off the stump..

 

[wg_bent]

o.k. What's a canthook?

I've managed to get trees stuck but if there is the possibility, I usually tie a comealong to the tree with a rope just in case. Pull at 45 keeps you safe and enough directional pull to get the tree down usually. Trick is getting the rope high enough in the tree your cutting to be effective. If there's that many branches it's usually the longest part of the job.

 

[Eric Johnson]

http://www.ruralheritage.com/logging_camp/peavey.htm

Scroll down for the pics.

Kevin, I get a kick out of your "had a hanger one time myself" observation. I've had more hangers over the years than I can count.

 

[suematteva]

http://store.baileys-online.com/cgi-bin/baileys/563?mv_session_id=5oEiKC3I&product_sku=15784

 

[Gibbonboy]

How do you aim your trees, GB?

Depends on the size, smaller than 6" or so at the base, I just line up with the marks on the saw and make a downward-angled back cut. Bigger stuff I cut the "right" way, with a notch and a hinge. I still use the saw to aim where I want it to fall. Depending on what the tree looks like, I may adjust my angle to one side or the other to steer a little off what the natural fall is going to be, usually just to miss other trees. I don't get tricky when felling, I won't touch anything close to buildings, wires, roads, etc. I try to go with the tree, I think that's the safest way. I won't fell every tree myself, sometimes I'll get a friend that's a pro to come and take a look, at least. I have a big cherry in the back yard that needs to come out, I've spent a couple hours mulling over how to drop it. When I'm sure of my plan, I'll go ahead and do it. It's about 28" at the butt, I wouldn't consider anything bigger, especially cherry.

I only get in trouble with the smaller trees, it seems. It's just because they're crowded in so close to each other that they get hung up. If I figure out a good plan of attack on a lot, I can usually fell trees in some order to keep the way clear. Always learning, always scared.

I've also felled trees with explosives, lots more fun, but our overlords in DC don't like big bangs anymore. Makes a heck of a mess!

 

[Eric Johnson]

That sounds good to me. Some people don't know how to aim a tree using the marks on the saw, but I see you do.

Usually I hang up trees when I think there's no way the tree is going to hang up. I get sloppy with my notching and aiming. I call it "pitching to the opposing pitcher" (National League) when you figure the guy can't hit anyway, so might as well toss him a big, old, fat fastball right over the plate and he hits it out of the park.

Like everything else in cutting trees, it always pays to take your time, plan and execute according to the plan. Otherwise, you spend all your time trying to get out from under your mistakes. Hopefully not literally, though that's certainly possible.

 

[Robbie]

I thought I would add this one thing, when this happens, and your cutting small sections off, be ready to run or get behind another tree.

I have had them swing all the way down and under, being held up off the ground by limbs hung in the other tree, and keep on going and then break loose and fall the other direction........very tricky and dangerous.


Robbie

 

[nshif]

I use the saw line as well as a guide when I cut the wedge out. Another trick is to take a double bit ax and stick it in the wedge. It should point in the direction of the fall. Butleaners etc have a mind of their own. Sometimes Ill leave less hinge on the side I want to fall to to help persuade it a bit. When this all wont work I Put a winch line about20' up and give it some persuasion.

 

[hardwood715]

I’ve also felled trees with explosives, lots more fun, but our overlords in DC don’t like big bangs anymore. Makes a heck of a mess!

Reminds me of creating an abitis, (Combat Engineers) blow the tree in place, but the trick is to keep it attached at the stump, so when the enenmy tries to move em, you open fire-ambush them, what was that equation- lbs of C4= diamiter squared X 2, or in a pinch just keep wrapping det cord around the puppy, it burns at like 5000 ft per second, instant toothpicks!

 

[Roospike]

I dont like to give out advise on cutting trees such as this because of all the different variables , so i wont. BUT I will post a link to show some heads up on cutting trees is an area as such.

at this link a Swedish one
http://www.skogforsk.se/KunskapDirekt/default.aspx?p=11362&bmp=11727


click on the text "Film For Bredband"
then click "avverkning med motorsag(10min)"

its a little movie about different cuts !!
Storm damage is Motorsågsarbete i stormskog (8 min)


Enjoy ! Ya ! ;-)

 

[KateC]

I've been following this thread and really want to thank you all. We have a tree growing half-way up a bank and leaning at a 45 degree angle into a big pine and have been scratching our heads on the best/safest way to fell it. Although the ''chowderhead'' is pretty good with a chainsaw and damn safety-conscious, I personally think this one is over his head. If the information here won't completely deter him, at least he has that much more to consider. Thanks again.

 

[Roospike]

I've been following this thread and really want to thank you all. We have a tree growing half-way up a bank and leaning at a 45 degree angle into a big pine and have been scratching our heads on the best/safest way to fell it. Although the ''chowderhead'' is pretty good with a chainsaw and damn safety-conscious, I personally think this one is over his head. If the information here won't completely deter him, at least he has that much more to consider. Thanks again.

Do you have pictures of the leaner / tree in question ?

 

[KateC]

Unfortunately I don't have any pics at the moment, but the fortunate part of having our chainsaw stolen is that it'll be spring before we replace it so no immediate worries that he'll pancake himself. As soon as I get that new digital cam for XMas you guys are in for it, though.

 

[wahoowad]

EXCELLENT video!

 

[Gibbonboy]

Those are both great videos, thanks for pointing them out!