dump zone suggestions please!

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The more I look at all this, and after reflecting on some more recent threads, I think Hot Rod hit the nail on the head (no surprise!) with his suggestion of a Laing 12vdc circulator + maintenance charged 12vdc battery.

The Laing pump is not cheap by itself, but it allows one to omit a lot else (automag valve and lots of tanks and plumbing)- which ends up cheap enough when you look at it from the big picture/ long run/ reliability perspectives.

The 12vdc battery is normally kept charged when the "grid" is on. When power goes down, a relay that's normally energized by the grid "drops" and then, as it does so, connects battery power to the Laing 12VDC circulator, which pushes water from the wood gasifier round and round through a [whatever is chosen] simple dump load (in my case, it'll most likely be a loop of ox-barrier pex at the basement ceiling/ under the floor). Include a check valve if your layout gives concern about inadvertent flows.

No worries about achieving gravity flow or how long it takes for the boiler to achieve a soft landing.

WAY simpler to build/ control and WAY more cost effective than UPS-es, tanks, and whatever. Only thing left to confirm, if someone can, is whether the Laing circulators are OK sitting almost always dormant for who knows how long, only to be energized if the power goes out. I recall reading that some of the "regular" wet rotor circs may seize up if left dormant and not "exercised" for a long, long time. I'll try to check with Laing, and also have my hands pretty full with the day job and the arrival of my Econoburn tomorrow.
 
pybyr

All things considered I'm still leaning to the gravity feed to fin tube. As slick as the Laing is, it is still a system and systems need to be tested periodically and are subject to breakdown. Of course that goes for the Automag valve that opens the gravity loop too.

I'll still keep thinking and watching the threads!
 
pybyr said:
The more I look at all this, and after reflecting on some more recent threads, I think Hot Rod hit the nail on the head (no surprise!) with his suggestion of a Laing 12vdc circulator + maintenance charged 12vdc battery.

The Laing pump is not cheap by itself, but it allows one to omit a lot else (automag valve and lots of tanks and plumbing)- which ends up cheap enough when you look at it from the big picture/ long run/ reliability perspectives.

The 12vdc battery is normally kept charged when the "grid" is on. When power goes down, a relay that's normally energized by the grid "drops" and then, as it does so, connects battery power to the Laing 12VDC circulator, which pushes water from the wood gasifier round and round through a [whatever is chosen] simple dump load (in my case, it'll most likely be a loop of ox-barrier pex at the basement ceiling/ under the floor). Include a check valve if your layout gives concern about inadvertent flows.

No worries about achieving gravity flow or how long it takes for the boiler to achieve a soft landing.

WAY simpler to build/ control and WAY more cost effective than UPS-es, tanks, and whatever. Only thing left to confirm, if someone can, is whether the Laing circulators are OK sitting almost always dormant for who knows how long, only to be energized if the power goes out. I recall reading that some of the "regular" wet rotor circs may seize up if left dormant and not "exercised" for a long, long time. I'll try to check with Laing, and also have my hands pretty full with the day job and the arrival of my Econoburn tomorrow.

Following up on the concept of Hot Rod's suggestion of the Laing 12vdc circulator+deep cycle battery + trickle charger + relay, what do people think of using a big loop of PEX (size to be determined) around the top of the basement/ underside of the first floor floor joists as the "load" for that approach to a dump zone? (recall that my house is forced warm air, so I have no existing or yet-planned hydronic zones in the floors above the basement to do a "regular" gravity dump zone)

I know that the Econoburn install/operation manual instructs no plastic pipe in the dump zone, but then again, they're assuming a solenoid valve/ gravity flow dump zone where the only thing moving the water and the heat would be the slow gravity flow. Hot Rod's idea of the Laing would create a much more active flow, so the risk of points of extreme heat, not moving, in the PEX seems a lot lower than in a gravity scenario.

If the consensus is that the PEX would "take it" for a dump zone if flow is provided with a 12vdc circulator, any suggestions of how I should go about calculating the right diameter/ length of PEX to use for this?

thanks
 
I'm "bumping" this thread, hoping one of the pros will take a look at and respond to my final question immediately above, about whether PEX would work in a dump zone with a 12vdc backup circulator- despite the usual admonition about having PEX in a dump zone

Thanks
 
pybyr said:
I'm "bumping" this thread, hoping one of the pros will take a look at and respond to my final question immediately above, about whether PEX would work in a dump zone with a 12vdc backup circulator- despite the usual admonition about having PEX in a dump zone

Theoretically, yes. However, duping 15kbtuh with baseboard would be far simpler and more cost-effective than using a long pex loop. it three 9-foot lengths of high-output baseboard, and you'd easily be there. 1.5gpm flow would be easy to attain.

Joe
 
hello - newbie to forum - have greenfire 130 - homemade wooden storage tank (1000 gals) and oil boiler - use to have a owb which I linked to the oil boiler to when we were away- unpressurized system- 50' from house. plan was to plumb wood and oil in parallel( to be used separately) which would charge the storage tank - and then use storage tank as source of heat for house ( mostly radiant, some baseboard) water temp needed 130-140- would have two flat plate hx - one charging from boilers - one feeding space heat -storage side of HX would be unpressurized- storage tank sensor and control would be Johnson A419 and a99 sensor - temp would be sustained at 130-150 range - this would energize aquastat at boiler 180 hi-limit and cir closing at say 130 -2nd aquastat for safety - probably more I could describe but thought I be brief - have some plumbing and electrical skills but you know what they say about "having a little knowledge" especially the control systems -putting the system together now and could use a little help along the way. I guess my first ? would be concerning the plumbing, wiring of my dump zone - I'm running a 3/4" line off my 1" supply line to approx 30' of finned baseboard located 5' above the boilers. this would reconnect to the system just before the return line re-entered the boiler. am I right to assume the 2nd aquastat would be a reverse aquastat "making" at 200F energizing the circulator. any input would be welcome
 
BrownianHeatingTech said:
pybyr said:
I'm "bumping" this thread, hoping one of the pros will take a look at and respond to my final question immediately above, about whether PEX would work in a dump zone with a 12vdc backup circulator- despite the usual admonition about having PEX in a dump zone

Theoretically, yes. However, duping 15kbtuh with baseboard would be far simpler and more cost-effective than using a long pex loop. it three 9-foot lengths of high-output baseboard, and you'd easily be there. 1.5gpm flow would be easy to attain.

Joe

How about a 3' length of surplus 30" high cast iron radiator on a thermo-siphon, or a UPS powered, set-up? Would that draw off enough BTU's to be an effective "dump/safety zone"?
 
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