Education needed

[zanethecarpenter]

I've been lurking around this forum for the last couple weeks since I bought a cheap, used insert. I could find a UL plate on it until I started taking it apart and found it behind the blower grill. It's a funky Preway brand "masonry fireplace insert" (MI-2842).

Through a bit of research I've discovered that Preway is long out of business and was nothing special when it was in business. The insert is just a two-layered metal box with no firebrick of any sort. I liked the idea of the blower because if my wife could feel warm air coming out of it, she'd at least start thinking she was warmer. After reading all of the negative things about using a preway insert in 2010, I was going to get rid of it, but I thought I'd better try it out first. The wood I had is some cedar decking, a couple cedar 4x4, a few dry pine logs and some indonesian hardwood that's about 25 years old. Terrible firewood. Anyway, I got a decent fire going, and with the blower on, the thing was really giving off heat. It brought the room temperature up to 65 from 50 degrees in a little over an hour, after using two space heaters all day that could barely keep up. (it's about 25 outside). So now I have a dilemma. I have a course for free firewood when I need it.

I don't expect anyone to give me a definitive answer here about what is safe, but I know very little about heating with wood.

Assuming I get the chimney cleaned:
-Is it safe to use this without any pipe? Currently the flue in my fireplace and the flue in the insert line right up. Can I seal the back of the insert against the brick and just let the draft do its work? I didn't have any issues with smoke in my test run, it was sucked right up the chimney.
-Can I add firebrick to the walls of this thing? Does that make any sense.
-I'm just trying to have an extra heat source for really cold days and when the power goes out, as all my other heat is electric. This beats the pants of my existing masonry fireplace, right?

Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[zanethecarpenter]

I know the wood shims and poly backer rod around the rim are totally unacceptable and I assure everyone they are very temporary.

 

[krex1010]

There are people here with way more knowledge than me concerning what's safe, and what's acceptable, so if I am offbase I am sure someone will correct me. If I understand you correctly you basically have an insert with no stovepipe whatsoever sitting in your fireplace. If that's the case I am going to venture to say that it is not very wise to use that thing. I am pretty sure that to be up to code a woodstove/insert needs at least a positive connection or a direct connect, which i believe basically consists of a length of pipe from the stove to up past the damper with a block off plate preventing a chimney fire or smoke from coming back down the chimney. The positive connection is only acceptable if you have a mint condition chimney, and even then I don't think anyone will tell you that it is the smart way to go. Regardless of whether this thing is putting of heat, I really don't think it is safe and I think you are asking for trouble by burning like that. I would highly recommend getting your chimney cleaned and inspected by a certified sweep and then lining your chimney.

 

[Pagey]

Check with local codes and/or your insurance to make sure you can do such an install, first. Bear in mind that you'll want to have a certified sweep inspect the currently liner of your chimney (we'll assume there's a clay line of some sort lining the chimney). If your flue tiles are in good shape and local codes/insurance permit, you may find you can get by this way. However, keep in mind that every time you sweep the flue, you MUST pull the insert.

Welcome to the forums, and burn safely!

 

[krex1010]

Yeah ease of cleaning should be reason enough to fully line the chimney, who wants to pull the insert out everytime you clean the chimney.

 

[zanethecarpenter]

Assuming an inspected and clean chimney, is using in insert in the way I proposed more dangerous than an open fireplace? Does the heat move slower through the chimney because there isn't as strong of a draft up the flue?

 

[bboulier]

Your Preway looks just like an insert we got rid of last year. We enjoyed, but it was very inefficient. Made for great fires and the exhaust at the top of the insert would hit you right in the small of the back. Aaahh! Ours' was just set into the fireplace, with no special liner. Of course, it was installed probably 30 years ago. We also had a variable speed fan one could attach on the right bottom side of the insert (as you faced it). Can't see whether you have one of those. They can still be ordered. When we installed our Jotul 550, we gave our old stove to our neighbors, who now use it. I am anticipating they will switch to something more "hi- tech" before long.

 

[bboulier]

Forgot one other advantage of the Preway insert in our fireplace. The fireplace did not have a good draft. Without an insert, we could not have burned a fire.

 

[agartner]

This is an excellent resource for you: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/install_insert

I personally would not be comfortable taking an insert and just putting it in the fireplace and lighting it up in my home. But that's just me.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I've been lurking around this forum for the last couple weeks since I bought a cheap, used insert. I could find a UL plate on it until I started taking it apart and found it behind the blower grill. It's a funky Preway brand "masonry fireplace insert" (MI-2842).

Through a bit of research I've discovered that Preway is long out of business and was nothing special when it was in business. The insert is just a two-layered metal box with no firebrick of any sort. I liked the idea of the blower because if my wife could feel warm air coming out of it, she'd at least start thinking she was warmer. After reading all of the negative things about using a preway insert in 2010, I was going to get rid of it, but I thought I'd better try it out first. The wood I had is some cedar decking, a couple cedar 4x4, a few dry pine logs and some indonesian hardwood that's about 25 years old. Terrible firewood. Anyway, I got a decent fire going, and with the blower on, the thing was really giving off heat. It brought the room temperature up to 65 from 50 degrees in a little over an hour, after using two space heaters all day that could barely keep up. (it's about 25 outside). So now I have a dilemma. I have a course for free firewood when I need it.

I don't expect anyone to give me a definitive answer here about what is safe, but I know very little about heating with wood.

Assuming I get the chimney cleaned:
-Is it safe to use this without any pipe? Currently the flue in my fireplace and the flue in the insert line right up. Can I seal the back of the insert against the brick and just let the draft do its work? I didn't have any issues with smoke in my test run, it was sucked right up the chimney.
-Can I add firebrick to the walls of this thing? Does that make any sense.
-I'm just trying to have an extra heat source for really cold days and when the power goes out, as all my other heat is electric. This beats the pants of my existing masonry fireplace, right?

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Welcome to the forum zanethecarpenter.

I will comment only on that part about burning cedar decking. Don't burn that stuff!

Never burn anything in your stove that has been treated.

 

[zanethecarpenter]

Welcome to the forum zanethecarpenter.

I will comment only on that part about burning cedar decking. Don't burn that stuff!

Never burn anything in your stove that has been treated.

I'm talking about untreated cedar decking, as in cut from a log and sanded. I wouldn't burn treated, stained, painted or plywood.

 

[zanethecarpenter]

This is an excellent resource for you: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/install_insert

I personally would not be comfortable taking an insert and just putting it in the fireplace and lighting it up in my home. But that's just me.

Thanks for that resource. It's very informative. I'll probably see how my new ductless heat pump keeps the house warm and re-evaluate the fireplace situation later in the winter.

 

[Install fire 1]

This type of insert will still be a big air and heat loss.

Will be filthy in behind and hard to clean, as mentioned by others.


I would have a high efficiency insert put in, which will introduce a lot more heat then you're getting, and you will burn a heck of a lot less wood.