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England Pellet/Stove burner auger stops after running for 30 mins!

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by kmkm911, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. kmkm911

    kmkm911 New Member

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    Well I'm back at work and the husband is at home doin the grunt work on the stove. We finally gave up last night and figured we would give it a go again this morning. When I spoke with England Stove Works customer service last time they had me move the thermal sensor from the left side to the right side and attach it to the exhaust blower. I have no clue why they did this but I have not moved it since. My husband is moving it back to the correct place. Maybe that is part of the problem?? Also, I was reading the entire manual last night and found an area that advised you to change the heat and blower settings to 5 at initial start up. We have had them both at 9 since the first time we started the stove. My husband is going to set them at 5 for startup and change them back to 9. Maybe it is overheating during startup and stops? Any more advice would be great!!

    Also, I'm not sure where the hi and low limit sensors are.

    Ok...we tried to start it with the heat range and blower at 5...the auger still stopped. I'm not sure what else to think besides something being wrong with the control panel?

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  2. MCPO

    MCPO Minister of Fire

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    Could it be the auger motor is bad? Have you checked the voltage across the terminals when it stops?
  3. kmkm911

    kmkm911 New Member

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    No we havn't checked that. I will tell my husband to do that as soon as it stops turning. If there is no current then the auger motor is bad right? If there is current then maybe the auger is not aligned? Or jammed?
  4. FordMastertech

    FordMastertech Feeling the Heat

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    No it's kind of the other way around, if there is no current/voltage then something is shutting down the auger.
  5. kmkm911

    kmkm911 New Member

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    Ok, husband is starting the burner right now and is going to watch for the auger to stop and test the voltage. Will post findings....maybe we will get lucky and it will just start working!!! LOL Thanks!
  6. pony66

    pony66 Member

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    Stay with it... the folks on this board are tops and will help you get the issue(s) resolved......it will take a little input from you and hubby for them to help make the right diagnosis. Good luck!
  7. imacman

    imacman Guest

    I think you mis-read that section. What they mean is that when you start-up the stove, regardless of what the heat & blower settings are at, the stove always starts on 5-5, then when it gets up to temp, it then reverts back to the settings you put it on.

    As for Englander having you move the heat sensor lead to the combustion blower (that's where my 10-cpm is attached), they may have thought that the temps on the blower would be higher and would allow the stove to "trip" the POF sensor and keep running.

    Are you SURE that ALL the leads on the control board are on snugly, and they are on the correct terminals, as per the diagram on P.21 of your manual?

    I'm leaning more & more to a bad heat sensor lead, or after that, a bad board. But I hope it's actually something else simple.
  8. LI-Mini-Owner

    LI-Mini-Owner Member

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    Hi - I found this manual on-line. Does it look like the one for your stove? http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/10-CDV.pdf Disregard comments if you have a different diagram...

    The vacuum switch is in series with the auger motor, so it's reasonable to conclude that since the auger motor works at start up that the comb motor is able to pull enough vacuum to close the vacuum switch. I don't think you should have loss of vacuum after 30 minutes as the root cause of the problem. As a test, shut the stove off, unplug, remove the wires from the vacuum switch and connect them together. Plug the stove in and start it up. If the auger motor still stops after 30 minutes, then we know 100% that the vacuum switch is not at fault.

    The wiring diagram does not appear to show any "snap switches". This means that the only way the control board knows anything about temperature is via the "thermal sensor" shown in the diagram. From looking at it I think it's a thermo-couple type sensor. These are not easy to test.

    I would like to know if the convection motor turns on and how long after flame is established does it take for it to start. The manual says that the stove must reach 110F for the blower to start. If the blower does start, then we know that the thermo-couple and control board thinks that the temp has reached at least 110F.
  9. LI-Mini-Owner

    LI-Mini-Owner Member

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    OOPS - imacman and me must have been typing at the same time, and I did not see his most recent post before I posted.
  10. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Yes, the OP knows it's a 10-CDV, and has the owners manual downloaded from Englander. They spoke to Englander Techs before, and said that they already tried bypassing the vacuum switch.

    The only other thing with the vacuum switch i can think of is that the vacuum hose is connected to the wrong port on the switch?
  11. cookie10

    cookie10 New Member

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    Ok, we have double checked all of the wires and leads. They are very snug and in the right area.

    The convection motor usually starts 5-10 minutes after we turn the unit on. It seems that the flame becomes very big and the unit gets hot pretty fast. Then the convection blower turns on and the air coming out is very very hot.

    My husband did say that there was another port on the switch for the vacum hose.

    This is our latest test and findings. We got the voltage meter out and tested the voltage on the auger motor during the startup mode. The meter read 120 VAC while the auger was turning. When the auger was not turning the meter read 0.5 VAC. We continued to leave the meter on for the entire start up mode and found that the auger would obtain voltage but was not turning. We counted the "skipped" turns and there was 2 skips then the auger turned 6 times. Then it stopped turning again for 4 skips (the voltage meter was still reading 120 VAC every 7 seconds). It started turning 2 times and then stopped completely. We continued to keep the voltage meter on and the meter was showing 120 VAC for 3-5 seconds then would go to 0.5 VAC for 6-7 seconds then go back to 120 again. This continued for about 5 minutes and we took the voltage meter off when the fire burned down due to lack of fuel.

    Any thoughts on this??? Im thinking the auger motor has something that is slipping inside.

    Also, we noticed a crack between the asbestos fire wall and the outside auger tube. The flames were "licking" towards the crack. Also, there is a nice size gap between the outside auger tube and the inside auger tubeer..

    We never recieved any error codes and the control panel did not say it was in SD mode either.
    Ok, I think that is all I have to report at this time. We are letting the unit cool down.
  12. imacman

    imacman Guest

    If the auger motor is getting 120v, but the auger itself is not turning, then check that the set screw on the auger motor coupler is tight.

    You might even want to remove the auger motor completely, as there is a flat spot ground into the end of the auger shaft....the set screw is supposed to line up with that and tighten onto it....that keeps the auger from slipping.

    Slipping will allow the amount of pellets to keep going down as they are burned, and eventually shut the stove off.
  13. cookie10

    cookie10 New Member

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    The stove is almost cool....We will take the motor and auger completely out and find the flat spot and check the tightness. I did notice yesterday when we cleaned it the auger was pretty loose and didnt feel very well attached to the motor. Ohhhhh maybe this is it!!!!! We will repost in 20 minutes or so!
  14. FordMastertech

    FordMastertech Feeling the Heat

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    It sounds like you zoning in on the issue, keep at it and we are all waiting to hear IT'S FIXED
  15. MCPO

    MCPO Minister of Fire

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    Looks like you got it narrowed down now. Loose set screws are common on the Englanders augers as Imacman stated.
    I`m not sure about the corn stoves but other Englanders stoves have one square set screw that holds the motor on the auger shaft and 2 allen head collar set screws on the auger ends (in front of the motor) that are often loose.
  16. cookie10

    cookie10 New Member

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    Ok, we cleaned every nook and cranny of this stove...took out the auger and the auger motor....cleaned every nook and cranny of the auger and motor. Took out the fireboard and noticed that the inside of the fireboard right at the auger hole has flaked away and looks like it has been burning. There was alot of soot on the backside of the fireboard as well. We cleaned that up and we started it up with the settings at 5-9-1 and crosed our fingers. The auger is still running!!!!!!!!!!! However, it seems that the fire wants to blow out...like the combustion air is too strong. So far the auger has been running (still dosent run like normal...more intermittant)...The fire does seem to be blowing out for some reason now...totally different problem!
  17. imacman

    imacman Guest

    9 is WAY too high for the LBA.....try setting it to 5 or 6.

    looks like you may have this finally figured out....was the auger set screw loose on the motor?

    BTW....the auger is not supposed to run all the time. Lower heat settings = less auger turning, and vice-versa.
  18. cookie10

    cookie10 New Member

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    It went out again but this time it actually went into shutdown mode! I am going to try again tomorrow and set the LBA at 5..
    We think the screw was loose and the auger motor and auger tubes were dirty...plus the area behind the fireboard was filthy! I will repost tomorrow and hopefully it works with the new setting. Thank you all so much for the help and advice!!!!
  19. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Any updates??
  20. Wi Thundercat

    Wi Thundercat Feeling the Heat

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    :gulp: Still Waiting.................. :bug:
  21. gerald

    gerald New Member

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    I just downloaded the owners manual, page 27 of the trouble shooting section, Says if the unit shuts down after 20 min. to 30 min.
    The cause will be:
    #1 Loose heat sensor
    #2 Control board setting.

    The fix:
    #1 Check Stove connection
    #2 Check settings always start with 5-9 settings

    If the above does not work. No one know their stove like the manufacturer. I saw on their web site that they had an e-mail support link. A lot a manufacturers are very willing to help.
  22. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Jerry, the OP was given a LOT of assistance by myself, other forum members, AND Englander Tech support on the phone. All the above items you mentioned were checked, but it seems that just when we thought we had the problem diagnosed and fixed, the OP decided to stop updating us.
  23. FordMastertech

    FordMastertech Feeling the Heat

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    It's funny you mention this as I was thinking about them earlier today.
    I am assuming they got it fixed or they beat it to death out of frustration.
  24. agrasso68

    agrasso68 New Member

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    I've been having the EXACT same problem with my Englander 25-EP. I have called the techs 5 times over the last 2 months with issues: first it was burn pot building up with pellets and backing up into the chute, then the auger stopped working completely. I bought a new control board per their advice and now every time the flame starts burning well, the auger stops. When the fire is out the auger starts again. I have reset the board to factory setting, I have increase the air intake and the pellet flow amounts on the control board, I've cleaned the entire stove out, and I've taken out and cleaned the exhaust blower. I've reattached the thermal sensor. The vents air intake is clear. The only thing I will check tomorrow is the chimney and make sure there is no build up, although I cleaned it out over the summer. I've only burned 1 ton so far this year. I'm thinking my next step is an exorcism.

    I hope this woman who posted gets back to the forum because I would like to know if they got their's working. Any ideas of what else I should do?
  25. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Did you remove, clean, and re-install the vacuum hose, and make sure the hose barb it connects to on both ends is completely free of ash?

    Are the ash trap doors closed completely?

    Is the ash pan seated fully? Have you checked for proper door gasket sealing using the simple "dollar bill" test?

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