Englander 10-cpm install

[mithesaint]

Hello all, newbie here. I'm in the process of preparing for the installation of my new-to-me 10 cpm, and have encountered a snag.

I have a center entrance, open floor plan colonial that I want to wean off of propane. The back half of the house on the lower level is one big room, about 45x13 or so. Right smack dab in the middle of that is an unused area that would fit a pellet stove perfectly. The problem is that there is what I call a plumbing alcove there. I know that's not the correct term, but basically it is an area on the wall that sticks out 6 inches further than the rest of the wall to allow passage of plumbing pipes. In that 30" wide area, there is a single 4" PVC pipe that drains the upstairs bathroom. According to Murphy's law, that sewer pipe is exactly where I want to vent the stove out through the wall.

Unfortunately, I can't move the stove very easily either way. Moving to the right puts it too close to my patio door, and to the left puts it into the living room area and too close to another window.

My question is: Can I put any elbows in the vent pipe before it goes through the wall? Does it have to be straight from the stove through the wall? Can I put an elbow on the outlet, run it upwards and to the right at about a45 degree angle to get to a point in the wall where there isn't any sewer pipe in the way, and then out through the wall?

Thanks in advance.

 

[smoke show]

sounds feasible.

check install manual for said stove.

 

[kofkorn]

As long as you are meeting all of the minimum clearances, there shouldn't be any problem with an install like that. It may be a little more of a challenge for your cleanings. Also check your EVL to make sure you are staying below the maximum recommended for your stove.

Good Luck!

 

[imacman]

Hello all, newbie here. I'm in the process of preparing for the installation of my new-to-me 10 cpm, and have encountered a snag.........My question is: Can I put any elbows in the vent pipe before it goes through the wall? Does it have to be straight from the stove through the wall? Can I put an elbow on the outlet, run it upwards and to the right at about a45 degree angle to get to a point in the wall where there isn't any sewer pipe in the way, and then out through the wall?......

First of all, welcome to the forum. I have the same stove, but that matters not in this case.

As far as using elbows right out of the stove, yes you can. You didn't say what the rest of the install was going to be after going through the wall outside....direct vent (straight out), or will there be another elbow to get the pipe going straight up? If so, how long?

These are questions you need to answer before we can determine if the EVL will be OK, or too high and require a change to 4" pipe. So try to describe the number of elbows (and type...45 or 90), lengths of straight pipe and orientation (vertical, horiz, or angled), etc, etc.

 

[mithesaint]

Thanks for all the feed back so far. As far as I can tell, I have two options.

Option 1: 90 degree elbow off the stove, pointed up and to the right about 45 degrees. Approx 1 foot of pipe running at a 45 degree angle, then a 90 degree elbow and out through the wall. Another 90 degree elbow and 4-5 feet of vertical pipe once I'm outside, with cap.

Option 2: 90 degree elbow off the stove, pointed horizontally to the right. Short length of pipe(6 inches? Maybe?), then a 90 degree elbow pointed directly vertical. 4-5 feet of pipe in a vertical direction, then another 90 degree elbow and through the wall. Short horizontal pipe outside and a cap.

Sounds like I have three elbows either way. Is either option preferable? I think the second option would look better.

Thoughts? Again, thanks in advance.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Welcome to the forum,

You are definitely in 4" vent range with either set up.

Do not attempt either with 3" vent.

Make certain you use a clean out tee and that you buy a good flexible brush system as that is a lot of bends to get a brush through.

You will not want a 4" brush kit because of the bends, a 3" may get through the bends.

The second option if I did the calculations correctly is not the preferred one, having a bend on horizontal doubles the EVL of the same bend going vertical.

 

[mithesaint]

4"? Nuts. I bought the 3" pipe that the previous owner had been using. Guess I'll have to sell that and hope to get back what I have in it, which truthfully isn't much.


Quick newbie question...EVL? Been reading on the forum for a few weeks, and haven't figured that acronym out yet. Thanks.

 

[GrahamInVa]

4"? Nuts. I bought the 3" pipe that the previous owner had been using. Guess I'll have to sell that and hope to get back what I have in it, which truthfully isn't much.


Quick newbie question...EVL? Been reading on the forum for a few weeks, and haven't figured that acronym out yet. Thanks.

Equivalent Vertical Length (EVL)

Read this, it will explain.

http://nevelsstoves.com/pellet-stove-venting.html

 

[imacman]

The EVL in both of those scenarios comes up to 20, so yes, it's 4" pipe for you.

List that 3" pipe on Craigs List....lots of people buying & installing stoves this time of year.

Oh, and BTW, Kinsman Stoves shouldn't be too far from you....they're in Brookfield and Kinsman Ohio. Eric runs the store, and is a member on this forum.....he will give you a discount if you tell him you're a member too. He is a GREAT guy!

If you call him first, use the brookfield store number:

www.kinsmanstoves.com

 

[mithesaint]

Sounds good.

I wish that Eric's store was close, but he's not. I'm on the other side of Ohio. Didn't mapquest it, but he's about 3 hours from me. NW ohio is a pellet desert. Only local dealer I know of sells pelpro stoves for $500 more than Menards, and only the big boxes carry pellets. Such is life.

Thanks.

 

[silverfox103]

Is that alcove wall open now? If it is, what about moving the plumbing drain pipe. I'm guessing it's PVC and that's real easy to move. A plumber should be able to do that very easily or if your handy, you should be able to do it. I am an electrician and if there were an electrical pipe there, I would either offset or saddle the pipe to move it over. You could cut the pipe by the ceiling and by the floor and then use two 30 degree fittings at each spot and glue it back together.

Tom C.

 

[mithesaint]

Thanks for the thoughts Tom. I had considered that, but decided against it. The wall is currently not open, I drilled a small hole to confirm my suspicion that the pipe would be in the exact wrong spot. I'm reasonably handy and probably capable of moving the pipe, but didn't really want to tear the wall open. That, and I'm not sure there is enough room to move the pipe before i run into a stud laterally. I may ultimately decide to do that, but I HATE drywall with a passion, and would avoid trying to repair drywall if I can avoid it. Of course, that might give me an excuse to do a nice stone veneer up to the ceiling...hmmm...

 

[mithesaint]

Ok, so I'm leaning towards tearing open the drywall and trying to relocate the pipe...

My vent through the wall would be in approximately the center of the stud space. If I relocate the 4" pvc to the very edge of the stud space, that leaves just enough space for the vent through the middle. Is it ok for the PVC to be in contact, or almost in contact with the outside wall of the thimble? If not, how much space do I need? Thanks.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ok, so I'm leaning towards tearing open the drywall and trying to relocate the pipe...

My vent through the wall would be in approximately the center of the stud space. If I relocate the 4" pvc to the very edge of the stud space, that leaves just enough space for the vent through the middle. Is it ok for the PVC to be in contact, or almost in contact with the outside wall of the thimble? If not, how much space do I need? Thanks.

Does your thimble require a framed opening?

If so the thimble walls will be within the framed opening and your pipe will be on the other side of the framing.

 

[mithesaint]

Great question Smokey. My stove and piping was used, so installation materials are spotty at best. The piping is Duravent, but there aren't any obvious markings on the rest of it. Any way to tell?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Great question Smokey. My stove and piping was used, so installation materials are spotty at best. The piping is Duravent, but there aren't any obvious markings on the rest of it. Any way to tell?

Duravent, as I understand it, requires a framed opening. Check their website and if the question isn't answered there contact them.