Englander 25 EP - need some help

[RustyB]

This forum has always been a great source of info so I'm hoping someone can shed some light on a problem I am having. I purchased a re-manufactured 25 EP in Oct this year and have been burning daily since then. I usually burn at 1-1 or 2-2 but with the cold stretch lately I went up to 3-3. As soon as I put the blower up to 3 it runs fine and then all of a sudden everything bumps up to what seems to be a 9. The blower is really going and it appears that the feed rate jumps also. This goes on for about 5 - 10 min and then cuts back down. Pushing blower speed buttons has no effect on this at all. When I first got the stove it did this for the first day no matter what setting I used and then it stopped doing it and ran normal since. I figured it was just getting settled in but as I said, now with it up to 3 it is happening again. There doesn't appear to be any pattern to it, everything is fine and then the bump up and on it's own it goes back to normal.
Sorry for such a long post but maybe someone out there had a similar issue and can give me a some advice. Thanks for any help or thoughts anyone has. BTW - just for info - I am burning Barefoots, OAK installed, corner install out the wall to a clean out T and up 3-4 ft and I follow the daily clean routine. Thanks again

 

[DexterDay]

Call Englander. May be a board issue. Or hopefully Mike Holton sees this. The refurb units come with Full factory warranty.

With a newly rebuilt stove, I would def call and see. Thats not normal operation. Settings are settings. And if there not working, there is a problem.

 

[imacman]

Before calling Mike at Englander, try a couple of things:

Unplug stove, open back of stove, and make sure all the electrical plugs are seated firmly on the board. Then, plug the unit back in and do a diagnostic test run to make sure everything checks out OK. www.englanderstoves.com/help/PelletStove/diagnostic_mode04.html

If all that seems OK, try running the stove one last time on 3-3 or higher and see what happens.

If it still does the same thing, then give Mike & the tech guys a call......they'll get you straightened out.

 

[GrahamInVa]

I have been having this SAME issue on my 25-EP. I bought my stove new back in June.

I have been talking with Mike (at Englander).

If I understand it correctly, the problem is that the exhaust temps are reading over 300*. The computer then turns the room air fan on max to cool the stove down. Once it cools down a bit then it goes back to your set blower speed.

I have tried several things that helped but haven't resolved the issue.

1. Raised the LBA to 5 and then 6.
2. Unhooked my OAK, inlet air is preheated to around 140* with my vent/oak setup.
3. Cleaned my stove REALLY good.


I will pass this thread on to Mike.

Sucks that you got the same issue but I'm glad i'm not the only one. :roll:

 

[xraycer]

Mine did this a couple of times too.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Have you checked for anything in the convection air path (since it is the convection air system that removes the heat from the stove)?

Sounds like the unit is producing more heat than the convection system is removing.

The same thing can also be said about the combustion air path since they also rise in temperature when the exhaust flow is restricted. Remember too much EVL for the vent size is an exhaust restriction.

 

[GrahamInVa]

Have you checked for anything in the convection air path (since it is the convection air system that removes the heat from the stove)?

Sounds like the unit is producing more heat than the convection system is removing.

The same thing can also be said about the combustion air path since they also rise in temperature when the exhaust flow is restricted. Remember too much EVL for the vent size is an exhaust restriction.

Convection air path is clear. Still looks new inside

My EVL is 20 and I am using a 4" vent.

 

[superchips]

The fan speed always needs to be set higher then the feed rate. I leave my fan rate on 9 24/7 because it is a DC motor and will last longer that way.
The chamber temp goes up and down as pellets burn. It sounds like you are overheating it.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Have you checked for anything in the convection air path (since it is the convection air system that removes the heat from the stove)?

Sounds like the unit is producing more heat than the convection system is removing.

The same thing can also be said about the combustion air path since they also rise in temperature when the exhaust flow is restricted. Remember too much EVL for the vent size is an exhaust restriction.

Convection air path is clear. Still look new inside

My EVL is 20 and I am using a 4" vent.

You are absolutely certain that there are no pieces of metal where they shouldn't be in that convection system because that is all it would take or a piece of gasket where the blower meets the exchanger.

Also is the area around the stove jacket free of anything that might interfere with the convection blower having access to sufficient air? Things like blocked slots or holes in the shell?

Is there a fuel feed slider in that unit, these things are set for a mythical pellet + or - some slop, sometimes that still doesn't cover the ground?

Have you operated the unit with the room blower one level higher than the feed rate (top buttons).


To the OP if both of the top lights are changing are you operating on a thermostat?

The suggestion to contact England is correct, all I'm doing is seeing Mike gets more information.

No matter how you slice it the fire produces heat and it must be removed by the convection system fast enough so it attains a steady state below the sensors cut off and the materials in the system ability to handle the situation.

What doesn't come out the convection system heads for the combustion system. It is that simple.

 

[GrahamInVa]

You are absolutely certain that there are no pieces of metal where they shouldn't be in that convection system because that is all it would take or a piece of gasket where the blower meets the exchanger.

Also is the area around the stove jacket free of anything that might interfere with the convection blower having access to sufficient air? Things like blocked slots or holes in the shell?

Is there a fuel feed slider in that unit, these things are set for a mythical pellet + or - some slop, sometimes that still doesn't cover the ground?

Have you operated the unit with the room blower one level higher than the feed rate (top buttons).

No I just looked for dust in the fan..ect..

No fuel feed slider.

I run the blower speed 1 setting higher than the temp setting during the day and then 2-3 higher at night.


It's interesting that I thought I had the issue resolved with a good cleaning yesterday (even told Mike it was fixed) and after about 4 hours of it running on heat 3, blower 5 the issue came back. Before the cleaning the blower would kick up just minutes after a setting of 3-5.

The stove really wasn't dirty either. There was NO ash in the inspection/clean out ports. There was a little crud build up on the heat exchanger tubes though.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ah some information. Have you the checked squirrel cage on the blower to see if it is sticking or requires a bit of force to move, does it spin freely?

Did it do this from the beginning and if your blower has oil ports have you ever oiled them?

What is the temperature like where the blower motor sits (I raise this because of possible impacts on the blowers lubrication schedule if any)?.

Do you have a multimeter?

 

[imacman]

1. Raised the LBA to 5 and then 6.
2. Unhooked my OAK, inlet air is preheated to around 140* with my vent/oak setup.

Have you tried lowering the LFF? Did Englander tell you to unhook the OAK?

 

[GrahamInVa]

1. Raised the LBA to 5 and then 6.
2. Unhooked my OAK, inlet air is preheated to around 140* with my vent/oak setup.

Have you tried lowering the LFF? Did Englander tell you to unhook the OAK?

The LFF is set at 1, which is the factory setting.

I reminded Mike that my OAK is preheated and maybe we should unhook it and see what happens. It did have an effect. After about 1 minute the room blower went back to the set speed.

I then turned up the feed rate from 3 to 5 and the blower the same. After a few minutes the room blower went back to max.

I had the same results with raising the LBA from 4 to 5. It helps but still gets too hot and kicks that fan to max.

 

[RustyB]

Thanks to all for the input and suggestions. Glad to see that I am not the only one with this issue. I will do another good cleaning on it as soon as I get out of work tomorrow and will check electrical connections and air paths when I have it shut down. Will also run the diagnostics (thanks for the link) and see how that comes out. As far as I can tell there is no adjusting the lower 3 buttons on this stove, my previous was a 25PDVC and they could be changed but these are not. I have often run the blower speed 1 higher than the feed rate but as soon as I go to 3 on blower things go wrong. Again, many thanks for the ideas, will keep you posted

 

[GrahamInVa]

Thanks to all for the input and suggestions. Glad to see that I am not the only one with this issue. I will do another good cleaning on it as soon as I get out of work tomorrow and will check electrical connections and air paths when I have it shut down. Will also run the diagnostics (thanks for the link) and see how that comes out. As far as I can tell there is no adjusting the lower 3 buttons on this stove, my previous was a 25PDVC and they could be changed but these are not. I have often run the blower speed 1 higher than the feed rate but as soon as I go to 3 on blower things go wrong. Again, many thanks for the ideas, will keep you posted

Mike H will get us straight. I'll let you know if we find anything.

Make sure you let him know about this issue too.

Also, the lower buttons are adjustable. Push the one you want to change, then press both up or down arrows to raise or lower the level. Raising the LBA to 5 does help a little. The factory settings are 1-4-1.

 

[GrahamInVa]

Ah some information. Have you the checked squirrel cage on the blower to see if it is sticking or requires a bit of force to move, does it spin freely? Yes, it moves very freely.


Did it do this from the beginning and if your blower has oil ports have you ever oiled them? Yes, it has been doing this for a while but for some reason I didn't pay any attention to it until now. With my normal setting (2-3) I don't have a issue. Only when I get above 3 on the heat. I looked for a oil hole but didn't see one. There isn't any mention in the manual about it either?


What is the temperature like where the blower motor sits (I raise this because of possible impacts on the blowers lubrication schedule if any)?. I took a reading of 94*. This was on my normal setting of heat 2, blower 3.


Do you have a multimeter? Yes

I just pulled the side cover and checked on these things...

 

[superchips]

My advice is to turn the blower fan all the way up. You are only talking about pennies of electricity and the DC motor should last longer.

 

[GrahamInVa]

My advice is to turn the blower fan all the way up. You are only talking about pennies of electricity and the DC motor should last longer.

It sounds like a tornado in my living room.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

My advice is to turn the blower fan all the way up. You are only talking about pennies of electricity and the DC motor should last longer.

What DC motor ???

Last I knew all three were 120 volt AC units.

 

[superchips]

My advice is to turn the blower fan all the way up. You are only talking about pennies of electricity and the DC motor should last longer.

It sounds like a tornado in my living room.

Try 6 or 7 then.

 

[superchips]

My advice is to turn the blower fan all the way up. You are only talking about pennies of electricity and the DC motor should last longer.

What DC motor ???

Last I knew all three were 120 volt AC units.

You might be correct. I haven't had to replace mine on the Englander yet.

 

[hnkstang50]

I have the same stove. Setting 1 and 2 for fuel feed seem to be the same and very small fire. then 3 and up make alot more heat. I heat my entire house so I burn on 1-5 or 3-7. Blower speeds 1-3 move almost no air and I'm not surprised the stove is overheating.

I see it as I would rather spend the extra penny's on electricty for the blower than have the heat going out the exhaust.

 

[GrahamInVa]

My advice is to turn the blower fan all the way up. You are only talking about pennies of electricity and the DC motor should last longer.

It sounds like a tornado in my living room.

Try 6 or 7 then.

I have.. Even with a heat setting of 3. The blower eventually ends up on max.

More importantly there is something wrong. I should be able to run the stove on any heat/blower combination and not have it supposedly over heat.

I'm not convinced it is "over" heating. Could be a bad batch of temp sensors?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

My advice is to turn the blower fan all the way up. You are only talking about pennies of electricity and the DC motor should last longer.

It sounds like a tornado in my living room.

Try 6 or 7 then.

I have.. Even with a heat setting of 3. The blower eventually ends up on max.

More importantly there is something wrong. I should be able to run the stove on any heat/blower combination and not have it supposedly over heat.

I'm not convinced it is "over" heating. Could be a bad batch of temp sensors?

Yes or a bad batch of control boards, bad connections between the sensor and the control board.

But there is a problem.

Since I brought up the connection angle with the stove off, cold, and unplugged try reseating the sensor connector at the control board, then plug it in and turn it back on.

I did note while reading the manual that it is possible for the blower to cool things to the point it turns off the convection blower, That also makes me want to check the AOT setting on the stove.

 

[GrahamInVa]

What is the AOT setting?