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Englander 30 vs. Summers Heat

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Russ, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. Russ

    Russ New Member

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    Hi Everyone!! I am brand new here and want to thank everyone who has already helped a ton just with all the info out there.... I have a quick question.... at least I hope it is quick...... I have been researching for almost a week nonstop and pretty much settled on the Englander 30 for our home... It is a brand new manufactured 3 bed/2 bath at about 1850 sq ft..... The local Home Depot just sold out (of course) so now I have to order it online.... 899.00 with 99.00 shipping to my front door... I KNOW that is still quite the bargain..... Here is the thing.... during all my research, I realized that the Summers Heat is built by same people... I can get the same size stove for 799.00 and it is at the local hardware store now so I dont have to pay shipping... I already have professional installers signed up to do this... and they have been very helpful even though I went with stoves they dont sell.... their price for install right at 1300.00 including pipe and such.... and around 500.00 for the larger pad that this model stove requires... My question is simply this..... It seems obvious that the answer is yes based on pictures and info on each stove but could someone just tell me.... Are the Englander 30 and the Summers Heat SNC-30 really the same stove, just marketed under different names??? Or if I go with the Summers Heat am I going with one that might be a little less quality??? They look like the same stove just different names... is that the case???? thanks for any advice or help..... and if you want to email answers to russbenson@frontiernet.net that would be good too... I dont want to miss an answer because of my lack of knowledge navigating this site as a user and not just a lurker.... thanks everyone..

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Welcome Russ. They are identical stoves with a little different edge trim. Go for it.

    Let's talk about the pad. Are you comfortable making your own? If not, make sure that it is designed for type 2 thermal protection that meets or exceeds the R=1.5 requirement for this stove.
    Russ likes this.
  3. Russ

    Russ New Member

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    Thanks for the fast response.... Yeah... I am familiar with the type 2 (well,, ok not familiar) but am aware that it takes that pad.... I am not experienced enough to tackle that not to mention just had back surgery (5lb lifting restriction) so having to just bite the bullet and buy it.... but with buying this stove... I can do it since I budgeted around 1800-2200 for the stove before I did all this research.... I am really excited about the englander 30 after reading about it and especially here on the forum... if I understand correctly, and correct me if I am wrong, the type 2 means basically a Bigger pad, right?? I think it is 52.5" in length is what the englander calls for... or am I missing something there? Is there more to it than that? I pretty much have to get the stove in for my wife.... she is a 37 year old still looks like a 22 year old Barbie.... but she got diagnosed with fibromyalgia about 4 years ago, and she goes from being a no nonscense farm girl to a 100 year old bed bound woman in the winter.... but that dry heat from the stove keeps her in less pain..... I was leaning towards the Heatilater WS22 (which the company doing this install sells) for 1399.00 but even though the WS22 comes with the 2.7cu ft firebox.... I like the even bigger firebox the englander 30 has.... plus... I have yet to read anything really bad about the englander except the requirement of the larger pad AND the enormous heat it puts out.... but that is the part I need.... My wife would thrive in 80-90 degree temps indoors in the winter.... i will go stand outside if I have to... LOL...... so.... thank you very much.... just out of curiosity, what is your opinion of the WS22 ? and again... thank you very much......
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Type 2 means a higher insulation value, not a larger pad.

    The stove will run on partial loads of wood, so there is no need to cook yourself out of the place. How is your wood supply? These stoves are great but they really want seasoned wood to burn properly. Also, they need adequate draft. This means a tall enough flue which sometimes is harder to accomplish in a manufactured home. Are you installing it with a straight up chimney? You should have at least 15' total chimney between the inside connector and the outside high temp pipe. Use a double-wall connector pipe to keep the flue gases warmer.
    Russ likes this.
  5. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    hi Russ,

    yes, they are identical in every way save the "trim package' different retailers buy their own trim package from us be it a nickle trimmed unit (lowes) versus gold trimmed (HD , ace and such) the hulls themselves are built in large batches , usually 2 to 4 hundred at a time at our north plant and then trucked to our south plant to be finished out and stored. when the raw units arrive there they are stacked until we run them down the "finish line" at which point they are trimmed out in whatever livery we happen to be building that day.

    the difference in names is strictly a marketing thing (which this old wrench turner stays as far from as possible)

    the Englander name (as well as summers heat) are a play on the company's founder. his name was Robert Summers England. the "Englander" name is obvious, "Summer's Heat" a little less but a tribute to the man think of it as "his heat" the "Timberridge" name is one we acquired quite a few years back was before my time at ESW.

    i never got to meet "pop" as we all refer to him,he passed away very soon after i was hired there. but my dad knew him from before the stoveworks existed, my dad always referred to him as a "quality person" as in personal character which is good enough for me.
    HDRock, firecracker_77, Russ and 5 others like this.
  6. Russ

    Russ New Member

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    Hmmm.... I was off base big time then.... I noticed they wanted a 50"+ length pad.... when most i was looking at I believe were only 48??? I completely misunderstood.... so I take it that means it will be a much thicker pad??? the guy at the stove shop was going to sell me one for 300 but that was for the WS22..... when I asked about whether he would install a stove for me if I bought the stove somewhere else... he was real good about it... when I told him I was leaning towards the Englander... he looked it up and said it was a type 2 pad which would be more like 500..... is that right??? when I asked him how thick they were, He told me about an inch and a half.... why do I have a feeling you are going to tell
    me otherwise??? LOL........ Can u give me a ball park figure on what a type 2 pad would cost??? not nothing fancy... just something to get the job done....this might change everything...... I was going to buy all this tomorrow... I thought I had it down... now I am not sure..... how thick are they? 3, 4"?? With a new place... gotta keep momma happy and she is being a stickler to keeping to her theme... LOL...... Brings me back to my other question..... what DO YOU THINK ABOUT that WS22 the heatilator???
  7. Russ

    Russ New Member

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    Hey there stoveguy..... thanks for the hello.....
    so you are one of the guys that works there on this forum?? Great!! If anybody could have answered my question it was you... LOL...... Thank you very much.... that is good to know that history.... so it doesnt matter than other than the trim.... so no reason why I cant just get the less expensive one.... Now I need to figure out if this type 2 pad is going to work....... Why is it that they require a type 2??? When I talked to the guy who runs the local wood stove shop about it..... he looked it up and he was completely surprised about that and didnt understand why it required it..... he said most stoves this size take the lesser pad.... I dont really care... I just want to be safe... and I guess now I need to know how much a type 2 is gonna run me.... that guy was going to sell me a pad for 300 if I went with the heatilator WS22 but that wasnt a type 2.... I called him on Saturday but I think it was close to closing time as he said he figures around 500 but wouldnt know until he looked into it.... but I can tell he wasnt going to at that very moment... LOL......
  8. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    So far it sounds like your dealer is being straight with you. The 30NC needs a 48"x48" pad according to the manual. A Yoder type 2 pad is 1.5" thick. You can check them out online. They are made in Sandy, OR. You'll want their type 2 thermal protector. http://www.hearthclassics.com/classic_edge_colors.php .

    We've had a couple folks here report on their WS22's. They seem pleased with them. I haven't seen one in person, so that's all I know about them.
    Russ likes this.
  9. Russ

    Russ New Member

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    Hey.... thanks for the link.... Yeah.... I talked to quite a few that first day I went store to store... I wish Home Depot would have had one to look at but they didnt... I can order online for 899 with 99 to ship it to my door... not bad... I just talked to Lowes... then can get it to me for 799 under the summers heat name.... their website says like 1200 but he told me 799.... we are going to Medford tomorrow for shopping so I will swing in and verify.... but out of everyone I have talked to, this guy seems to be pretty honest at the stove store....
    are you sure on the size of pad??? I went back and looked and it says 39x52 1/2 ...... or am I misreading that??? thanks for all your help.... let me know if i am reading that wrong as I plan to order everything tomorrow..... thanks so much....
  10. savageactor7

    savageactor7 Minister of Fire

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    Good luck with the install Russ and post us some pics when you're done.
    Russ likes this.
  11. Russ

    Russ New Member

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    I sure will..... headed out the door now.... gonna probably make my purchase today.... or at least make final decision and do it online tonight when I get home.... wife gonna
    shop today too.... so should be an all day affair! LOL.... look forward to any last bit of info here tonight when I get home.... thanks for everything guys.....
  12. Russ

    Russ New Member

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    begreen..... here is the update.... I went to the store.... finally got to see the stove in person.... NICE!!!!!! I told the guy before I pay for it... I was going to run to the local stove shop and make sure I can afford to get the bigger pad for it.... that is where my day went to crap real quick..... I spent hours today trying to get a price out of them.... they have NO experience with the Englanders so he has never ordered more than the usual standard size pad before.... he has a HUGE 56"x51" pad he will sell me for 300.00.... which I guess is a good deal but that is where the wife freaked out!!! She did not realize how big of a pad it was going to take and the room the stove is going in (the only one it can go in) would be literally cut 1/3 because of this huge thing.... and darn near cut off the entrance to the front door.... Where did you see in the manual that it was a 48x48 pad??? Everyone else is saying it takes a bigger one.... to pass code.... can anyone tell me what is the smallest pad I can go with on the englander30/summers heat??? Thanks for any help.....
  13. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    The Englander 30 requires a minimum of 39" wide x 52-1/2" deep of R 1.5 or better floor protection (from my NCH-30 installation guide). That allows 8 inches of clearance on each side and back, and 16 inches in front.
    Russ likes this.
  14. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    Russ likes this.
  15. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    My bad, I still have the 2006 manual. This has been updated.
    old 30 nc pad.PNG new 30 nc pad new.PNG

    Sounds like you and your wife need to adjust to the impact this will have on your home. My wife was the same way. But now it's no big deal at all. If the hearth pad being offered is a type 2 with at least an R=1.5 rating, that sounds like a reasonable price. It is large, but that extra place could be a location for wood storage. I think the closest stock size is going to be around 48" x 54". To get it more precise you will need to have Hearth Classics or other company make you a custom pad or make one yourself.

    You might want to mock it up for your wife out of cardboard. That will allow you to play with placement and to get used to the visual impact.

    Where are you located?
    Russ likes this.
  16. Cornelis

    Cornelis Member

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    Hi, I am looking at the Englander 30-nc stove to replace my WS22 for next winter. But they will come out with a new stove this year "Smartstove" does anybody did hear about it and would it be worth to wait till it comes out
    Russ likes this.
  17. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    ok, im "sworn to secrecy" on this but i will mention a couple things;

    the "smartstove" technology we are working on is literally in the "infant" stage, its gonna be big like a seperate line of both woodstoves and pellet stoves as it sits right now. but we have A TON of work yet to do on it before its going to be ready for the public.

    part of the reason for the thing on our website is to generate interest but also to secure the name via public domain. rest assured folks when this is ready, you will see it first on the hearth. but right now its looking like a line of woodstoves (2 to 3) of varying sizes and a few (dunno how many yet) pellet stoves with control capabilities we do not currently offer. im hoping to include "nesting" capability so a unit can be controlled remotely with a smartphone app but thats not the whole of it.

    as for "holding out' wish i knew, its still a ways off, a lot of this is a reaction to potential emissions standards changing soon though our current stoves should easily be below them unless big brother gets stupid about it. stoves which can regulate air internally to adapt to a burn while in progress is part of the thought process as well.

    remember though we are VERY early in the process, and this isn't a trivial exercise. gonna take time.
  18. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the update Mike. I didn't think this would be trivial. Reliability, safety and efficiency demands are going to take a lot of testing to make it right. You folks should do ok with the 30NC for a while. That's already a very clean burning stove.
    Russ likes this.
  19. Cornelis

    Cornelis Member

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    Thanks for the info. The person I talked to at England told me that if I was not in a hurry to buy a stove to wait for this one to come out
  20. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    wish i could talk more about it , but its simply so early in the game, the stoves so far punched out for concept testing are kinda rough around the edges so to speak and we're still drafting some other styles to play with. i could probably get a couple shots but they could look totally different in a few weeks so its kinda moot at this point.

    i will say this though, its the biggest project this company has undertaken since phase 2, maybe even bigger as it is going to be both wood and pellet simultaneously. i really hope the "wow factor" lives up to the hype. .
    DexterDay likes this.
  21. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Don't forget the trade in program. >>
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  22. katwillny

    katwillny Guest

    We own the 30 and we absolute love it. It puts out a great amount of heat. she does eat up a lot of wood but we really have grown to love that black box. It took some learning, and i am still learning, but we are getting there.
    Russ likes this.
  23. Russ

    Russ New Member

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    Mike.... thanks for the phone call today.... Ended up getting the 30..... they are delivering it to the stove store here and they will bring it out when they come to install... turns out my neighbor's son in law does tile work.... so I called him and he is going to come over this weekend.... and get the job done.... the only concern I have at this point, is the guy at the stove store and the guy doing the tile BOTH tell me that putting a sheet of hardyback or duroc (spelling?) and then laying the tile over that will be sufficient for the 1.5 R requirement however.... I did some research and even went down to the local hardware store.... I have found that either board they use under tile only comes to at most .24 on the R scale.... and the tile way less than that!!! I dont understand how they get the 1.5 from those numbers..... How can that be right??? all of you with the Englander 30 can anyone tell me that is how they built their pad??? Thanks again everyone for all your help.....
  24. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    All the EPA stuff I see being tabled now is looking like they will adopt the Warshington state standards as EPA III, and as such the 30-NC passes that now. Typically the gov't is pretty lame about updating standards, and using a state standard that is in effect now is a lot easier than coming up with a complete set of new ones. They can point at WA and say, "Look, it can be implemented and has been in effect there!"
    Russ likes this.
  25. Russ

    Russ New Member

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    Hey guys... I am sitting here looking.... Mike told me earlier on phone to go to the room on pad building that many of you who have the Englander 30 built your own pads and to go there to get a ton of info.... MY BRAIN IS SMOKED!!!! I cant find which room he said to go to ... can someone point me in the right direction...... also.... my prior post I forgot to mention that the first time I spoke to the guy at the stove shop today when I told him i had someone to do the ceramic tiles and told him about the duroc or hardyback underneath it, he told me that would be great and that would get me over the 1.5 R requirement.... when I did my research after that, and realized it didnt even come close, I called him back and questioned him on this... THEN he said.... it doesnt matter because the heat from the stove isnt what the R factor is for and that really what the pad is there for is just for ember protection???? Is this right? I caught him changing his story with me when I found out it DIDNT meet the 1.5 requirement and when I called him out on it.... he tells me its just for ember protection?? can someone play this rookie straight and tell me is he B.S.ing me or is he right..... the guy doing the tile can only get over here this weekend or he cant do it... he lives 100 miles away and this is his only free weekend... I believe partly because his wife and kids want to see mom and grandma next door.... so I am starting to stress as I need to feel comfortable about this before saturday... thanks guys....

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