Enviro Milan wont stay lit - Burn pot full of pellets

[md2002]

Had my Enviro MIlan for about 6 years now and for the past month or so it's been shutting off and not staying lit. At times it will run for days, and other times for hours and it just shuts off. Most of the time the burn pot is full of pellets when I notice that it's out. The stove is flashing a #3 error code which seems to mean that 'no proof of fire detected" by exhaust temperature sensor due to igniter failure, empty hopper (this isn't the case) or faulty temperature sensor. I've read the manuals and googles for hours and can't find anything on how to check these things.

I have given the stove a deep clean and disconnected and connected all connections and now it wont stay on at all. It goes out within minutes. I have noticed that it seems like when this has been happening the pellets on the right side of the burn pot don't burn, it's as if they're not getting enough air. I've tried giving it more air but that doesn't seem to help. It seems like the pellets don't burn so the flame gets mothered by other pellets falling into the pot. It seems to stay on longer (and not have an issue) when the temp is set on setting 4 instead of 3. The only other thing I've noticed is the door gasket could stand to be replaced. I've also connected and disconnected the air intake tube.

The both fans seems to be working, the convection blower is hot to the touch but this may be normal and it feels like it's spinning, The combustion blower I can see spinning. I am not on a thermostat. I guess this is a long way of asking - how do I check to see if the sensors mentioned are faulty?

Thanks!

 

[johneh]

Here is a copy of enviro service manual
Could be you are running the stove to cold ( not enough fire to heat sensor )
May also be ash clinging to sensor (proof of fire )
http://enviro.com/custom_content/docs/manuals/C-12145 Instruction PELLET Service Manual.pdf

 

[md2002]

Here is a copy of enviro service manual
Could be you are running the stove to cold ( not enough fire to heat sensor )
May also be ash clinging to sensor (proof of fire )
http://enviro.com/custom_content/docs/manuals/C-12145 Instruction PELLET Service Manual.pdf

Thanks, I've looked through this but I can't find anything that shows me where the heat sensor is? Unless it's on the panel board. I'm going to keep searching. Right now it's been running all day and night but it could shut down anytime.

Check that, I found the exhaust temp. sensor on page 66 but I'm not sure how to read this diagram. Do you know if it's on the actual board or if it's somewhere in the stove. All indications are that this sensor may be faulty from everything I've been able to find.

 

[johneh]

http://enviro.com/custom_content/docs/manuals/C-11921 Instruction Milan Domestic Technical Manual.pdf
See page 18 number 1
Ceramic Fan Temperature Sensor
Also read number 9 on page 14

 

[md2002]

Thanks, I've done number 9 with no luck. I didn't adjust the auger to #1 and #5 though only because I've never had a problem with the settings it's always been running on, but I'll find how to do this and at this point I'll try it.

I missed the part in page 18. I'll check for dust on the sensor and if needed start by replacing that.

 

[stovelark]

Did you clean the POF switch? Above the comb blower with brown wires going to it? You could also bypass it to see if its the issue, its probably coverted with crud and not closing properly. Is the air shutter correct? (All the way to the left, back right about 1-4-1/2 inch). Could be a tired switch too, but I'd clean it first.

 

[md2002]

Did you clean the POF switch? Above the comb blower with brown wires going to it? You could also bypass it to see if its the issue, its probably coverted with crud and not closing properly. Is the air shutter correct? (All the way to the left, back right about 1-4-1/2 inch). Could be a tired switch too, but I'd clean it first.

I cleaned something that was attached to the convection motor, I think it was the heat sensor and it was covered with crud. What does POF stand for I couldn't find anything that resembled a switch above the combustion blower and what's the air shutter control? Do you mean the slider in the front to adjust the air?

After a good cleaning it ran for 3 days without issue but it went out again last night. So I cleaned the sensor and will see how that works. I'm also getting my door gasket today and will try to replace that as well. The dollar bill I used to test the seal was easily pulled out when I put it in the door. There was no resistance at all.

Thanks

 

[md2002]

I did a deep cleaning of everything but I'll check those 2 things to be sure. Thanks, this is driving me nuts.

Did you clean the POF switch? Above the comb blower with brown wires going to it? You could also bypass it to see if its the issue, its probably coverted with crud and not closing properly. Is the air shutter correct? (All the way to the left, back right about 1-4-1/2 inch). Could be a tired switch too, but I'd clean it first.

I found the vacuum switch, I'm going to try to bypass it next

 

[zrock]

Did you pull the motors out and clean the fan's? Looking at the picture in your other post it still looks pretty dusty/dirty around the auger motor.

 

[md2002]

Did you pull the motors out and clean the fan's? Looking at the picture in your other post it still looks pretty dusty/dirty around the auger motor.

I cleaned around it but didn't pull the motor and clean the fan. since the issue is still happening I will do a "deeper" cleaning. The issue now is after I cleaned the sensor I'm smelling smoke. I think it because I unscrewed the sensor and didn't replace the caulking/silicone under the sensor, I just screwed it back in. I'm guessing there isn't a tight seal ( the sensor had caulking securing it in place) when I removed it.

 

[stovelark]

That switch is the Proof Of Fire switch. Yes I was talking about the air slider control. A deep cleaning of the stove is prob needed. You might want to replace the POF (EC-001), pull the blowers, clean both of them. Take the exh liner off and clean it via the quick disconnect. Did you pull the internal back plates and clean behind them too? I don't think anything is really wrong, a good cleaning and maybe replace the POF switch...

 

[md2002]

That switch is the Proof Of Fire switch. Yes I was talking about the air slider control. A deep cleaning of the stove is prob needed. You might want to replace the POF (EC-001), pull the blowers, clean both of them. Take the exh liner off and clean it via the quick disconnect. Did you pull the internal back plates and clean behind them too? I don't think anything is really wrong, a good cleaning and maybe replace the POF switch...

I've done everything you mentioned above and also replaced the door gasket because it's an easy fix to try. Since I removed and cleaned the POF switch (EC-001) it wont stay lit at all anymore. It starts up, runs for about 10 minutes then shuts down. So I'm going to try to bypass the switch as a test. Since it shuts off every time it will be easier to troubleshoot. I also appear to smell smoke since cleaning the POF switch but it could be my imagination because I see no smoke, unless someone has a trick to look for smoke. There's nothing obvious.

Couple of interesting things is that there was a pile of pellet dust (very small fines) on the floor at the base of the auger and also there are a lot of fines coming out of the heat exchange on the stove. Not sure if this is a sign to help troubleshoot but it's just something I noticed. I attached a pic of the outside of the stove. These fines were there after about 10 minutes of running the stove.

 

[Ssyko]

Fines could be comming from the auger down into the back of the stove and being sucked in by the convection blower then sent out through the exchanger tubes. It should have a seal but it just may be a bushing and they are sliding buy. Look for smoke with a flashlight when the area is dark and you just start the stove.

 

[md2002]

Fines could be comming from the auger down into the back of the stove and being sucked in by the convection blower then sent out through the exchanger tubes. It should have a seal but it just may be a bushing and they are sliding buy. Look for smoke with a flashlight when the area is dark and you just start the stove.

Ya, I looked with a flashlight and say nothing for smoke so it may just be my imagination.

 

[Watcher1]

Ya, I looked with a flashlight and say nothing for smoke so it may just be my imagination.

So I have to reply to your post. I had a Baby Magnum when the auger seal went bad it the room air fan sucked the sawdust fines up thru the heat exchanger tubes where they turned to black crap that covered everything in our house in time. 1 night I went to the basement in the dark and noticed tiny sparks coming out of the air holes. I am pretty sure this crap is not good to breath also. You need to replace that auger seal, and I would not use the stove anymore until it gets done because you are also coating the insides of you heat exchanger. JMO.

 

[md2002]

So I have to reply to your post. I had a Baby Magnum when the auger seal went bad it the room air fan sucked the sawdust fines up thru the heat exchanger tubes where they turned to black crap that covered everything in our house in time. 1 night I went to the basement in the dark and noticed tiny sparks coming out of the air holes. I am pretty sure this crap is not good to breath also. You need to replace that auger seal, and I would not use the stove anymore until it gets done because you are also coating the insides of you heat exchanger. JMO.

Thanks for the response, I was thinking the seal because having sawdust fines at the base of the auger seemed strange to me. I'm going to look into it. I plan to call Enviro about it.

 

[stovelark]

Its not a lot we see worn auger bearings but its certainly probably the issue. I agree with watcher, get it fixed soonest. I've also had to re silicone the hopper seams from leaking fines through to get redistributed with the convection blower, which is never a good thing. Sometimes you might hear a groan or two also from the auger when auger bearings get worn.

 

[md2002]

So here's the update after a week of troubleshooting. I by-passed the fan temp sensor switch but the strove still went out after about 15 minutes. Same scenario, ignites good, burns good, augur seems to be working but then it "seems" like there isn't enough air, the flame gradually goes out, burn pot fills up and stove goes out with an error #3. I then realized the combustion blower was set to 1, default is 2 so I set the blower to 3 setting and it stayed lit for 90 minutes instead of 15 minutes but it still went out. This is all done with the sensor switch bypassed. I then plugged the sensor back in and bypassed the vacuum switch and the stove went out again. I measured the voltage from the board to the convection blower and it read 113 - 114 volts, as the flame went out and the stove turned off it went up to 118v.

While all this was happening I played with the air slider and gave the pot more or less air but this didn't help, I cleaned the air tube and gave the entire stove a complete deep cleaning before I started all this testing. I also don't smell smoke anymore while the convection fan is disconnected but this may be because it hasn't had time to create enough smoke. The next step is since the sensor is the least expensive part to replace I'm just going to order one, even if it's not the issue these sensors don't last forever and eventually I'd be replacing it.

 

[stovelark]

From what you are saying, sounds like the combustion blower is either heating up and slowing down (less airflow) or combustion voltage could be falling causing the same.. Does the combustion blower sound normal? Its good and clean? If its the original, it could be getting tired. Does the flame appearance look normal? Brisk movement espec when you open air shutter (to the right?) One more thing- is the ashpan pushed in and locked? The burnpot is sitting down in its two corner holes? Man this is a weird one- The exhaust liner is clear and clean?

 

[md2002]

From what you are saying, sounds like the combustion blower is either heating up and slowing down (less airflow) or combustion voltage could be falling causing the same.. Does the combustion blower sound normal? Its good and clean? If its the original, it could be getting tired. Does the flame appearance look normal? Brisk movement espec when you open air shutter (to the right?) One more thing- is the ashpan pushed in and locked? The burnpot is sitting down in its two corner holes? Man this is a weird one- The exhaust liner is clear and clean?

Everything on the stove is 100% clean. The combustion fan is original. It sounds normal, last year the bearings sounded like they were grinding so I oiled it and it hasn't been an issue since. The right side of the burnpot seems like the issue. The pellets start to collect and not burn on that side. By right I mean standing in front of the stove and looking at it. Even if I give it more air the right side of the burn pot the pellets won't burn, they just stop burning and pot fills up eventually. When it's running the flame looks perfectly normal. The only thing that seems different is the pellets are flying around the burnpot more even though it's at the same amount of air as it's always been.

 

[johneh]

The hum of the auger motor

 

[md2002]

The hum of the auger motor

Cool, I'm at my wits end so I thought I would check. Thought it might be normal but had to check.

 

[md2002]

Ok, so here's the next update. I replaced every gasket in the stove and the smell of smoke is gone so that problem was taken care. As for the original problem - I did a deep cleaning again, pulled out the entire stove, tightened up every screw and bolt I could find. Removed and cleaned the convection motor and the stove would still not stay lit and sometime would turn off right after the start up sequence.
I took a trip to the place I bought the stove to pick their brain, everything that I described to them sounded like an exhaust issue to them. $300 later I headed home with a new high heat sensor and a combustion motor. Swapped out the sensor and the stove turned on and ran great for a bit then it shut off. So I gave my exhaust fan (the original) a GOOD cleaning. I cleaned as much as I could hooked it back up and the stove ran great if I had it set to #4, as soon as I dropped it to #3 setting the burn pot would eventually fill up and go out, right side wont burn and it goes out. I attached a pic of what the burn pot starts to look like before it fills up and goes out. I ran it on #4 settings for days, no issues - as soon as it goes to #3 it goes out within an hour or so.

Enough is enough, I replaced the combustion motor. Long story short I still have the SAME problem, works on #4 goes out on #3 , most of the time. With the new motor sometimes it will run for hours before going out, but it still goes out. At this point, the only thing left to do is switch pellets and see if anything changes. I've been switching pellets back and fourth but not entirely, if switching pellets doesn't do it I'll be replacing part by part.

All gaskets replaced, deep cleaning, exhaust motor replaced, high heat sensor replaced. Still not fixed.

As a note, when the burn pot looks like the picture and I open up the air vent and basically rush air into the burnpot, the pellets on the right still wont catch on fire and it goes out.

Another note. Since replacing the motor the stove vibrates and hums a lot! It sounds like a jet plan taking off. I need to give it a push and it stops but eventually comes back,

 

[johneh]

Have you removed the brick panels from inside the fire box and cleaned behind them ?
If not it is a great spot for ash to pack it in and reduce air flow through the stove
Happen on my stove thought it was the combustion blower but just ash in the passages

 

[md2002]

Have you removed the brick panels from inside the fire box and cleaned behind them ?
If not it is a great spot for ash to pack it in and reduce air flow through the stove
Happen on my stove thought it was the combustion blower but just ash in the passages

Yes, one of the 1st things I did when all this started. When I did the deep cleaning there wasn't any Ash anywhere, I cleaned the entire stove inside and out. Typically all my problems have been solved with a good cleaning but not this time.