Finishing Basement - Harman XXV Install - Insulate ceilings?

[lbcynya]

Hello All:

We're in the process of finishing our daylight basement (ranch style home) which has 42" concrete walls and standard drywall, insulation and windows above. We are then putting up straight 2x4 stud walls from floor to ceiling (9' ceilings mostly) effectively doubling the wall thickness since everything above grade was already drywalled and insulated. We plan to insulate the new stud walls as well. The basement should be very cozy and heat loss should be at a minimum.

We plan to install the Harman XXV in the new living room downstairs which is directly below the existing master bedroom. Master bedroom + bath and living room below are basically the same square footage (about 425 square feet). There is a second large room adjoining the living room downstairs so the heat from the pellet stove will be able to flow easily to about 900 square feet of living space. There is an open staircase in the center of the house, separating the 2 large rooms, so we anticipate some heat running upstairs as well.

We have a traditional wood stove on the first floor in the center of the house and it keeps the master bedroom at about 67 degrees...we still plan to run the wood stove, but maybe a little less after the pellet stove install...

We're concerned about noise first, then I'm concerned about whether we'll get too much heat from the basement up into the master bedroom. Any thoughts or experiences that would help me decide whether to insulate between the living room below and the master bedroom or not??

Thanks in advance for any feedback

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'm a bit confused, is the to be finished basement below the living room and the master above the living room? Meaning in effect three floors. Just trying to figure out what is going to be where.

 

[lbcynya]

Haha, sorry. Daylight ranch (2 levels only), stove will go in the new living room below the master bedroom.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Haha, sorry. Daylight ranch (2 levels only), stove will go in the new living room below the master bedroom.

Ok, so in essence you are doing what is known as a basement install.

Which is the situation I have.

Now do you want any of the heat to go through the ceiling to the bedroom?

If the answer to this question is no then insulate the daylights out of the ceiling. Just remember that then the only heat that'll make it up to the bedroom from the lower floor is via the stairs.

Also I have no idea if what you are planing on doing with the basement wall is up to code where you are, make certain it is. Some areas require more space inside the wall for insulation than a 2 x 4 provides and you have the added complication of it being in the basement. Basements are prone to being damp and there are special considerations as a result.

Then there is the old vent placement issue and other air handling considerations.

 

[cma-p68]

Regular insulation will help some and sound board would be better because it's a denser material but you'll still might hear it when the auger turns. My stove is under my bedroom and I can hear mine have regular insulation in my ceiling but I sleep like a rock and wasn't going to tear down the drywall to fix it. As long as the drywall is attach directly to the floor joist and wall the sound will be transmitted.

 

[lbcynya]

I know, lots of things/factors going on at the same time...

If I isolate my question to heat transfer through through the floor, should we expect more or lesss than a 5 degree temperature rise through an uninsulated floor if the living room below is heated to 75 or so degrees? Ideally, we wouldn't mind if the bedroom was a little warmer, I just don't want to get baked out at night.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

My stove is directly below where I sleep, the ceiling is wall board, then insulation. I believe that furring strips were attached to the joists and the drywall was attached to the furring strips. I don't have an access point to verify that by. I'm saying that because the joists run 90 degrees to the markings used to locate drywall screws in my garage. All exterior walls have a 6" insulated cavity.

The flooring in the bedroom is is carpet over plywood.

The flooring in the basement room which the stove sits on is a slate hearth over carpet over rubber footed sub floor panels.

I hear nothing through the floor. I do hear the auger through the bedroom door (if it is open) as it is at the top of the stairwell.

 

[tinkabranc]

My setup sounds similiar to what you are describing. I have an XXV installed in the
finished basement, ranch home, and an open stairwell on first floor.

We originally had insulation in the basement ceiling for noise control. Not from the stove, but
from running kids and dogs. We then took it down thinking the rising heat from the stove
would help warm the upstairs even more than it already does.
Made no difference in the temperature upstairs so we ended up putting it back up again.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you keep the down stairs at 75 expect the second floor to get close to 70 degrees at the top of the stairway provided. What comes through the floor would be less.

I currently have a seven degree difference between my stove room and the bedroom with the doors all open and an insulated ceiling in the stove room. It is 74 in the stove room and 67 in the bedroom.

 

[lbcynya]

Thanks folks! I think you satisfied both my objectives!

Any other feedback for comparison would be welcomed.

 

[Glosta]

My setup sounds similiar to what you are describing. I have an XXV installed in the
finished basement, ranch home, and an open stairwell on first floor.

We originally had insulation in the basement ceiling for noise control. Not from the stove, but
from running kids and dogs. We then took it down thinking the rising heat from the stove
would help warm the upstairs even more than it already does.
Made no difference in the temperature upstairs so we ended up putting it back up again.

Tink is exactly right with his assessment. I'm also in the process of finishing my basement (two level split entry) with partially open stairway to main floor. 2"x4" wall construction insulated with R12(including 2ft knee-wall) with 2" x 10" Floor Joists in the ceiling. I had the quad 1200i installed in October and was burning pellets through Christmas with no insulation in the ceiling. Basement temperature was 74 degrees with a main floor temperature of 64 degrees.

The week after Christmas, I addad unfaced R-19 insulation to the ceiling for two reasons: 1) control the noise of the kid's and dog upstairs 2) Enhance the sound of my 7 to 1 Surround Sound set-up. Basically I made the decision of sound over heat. Well..at least I thought I was giving up a few degrees of "collateral heat" to the main floor. Turns out, there's no temperature difference with or without the R-19 insulation in the ceiling. I'm still getting 74 degress in the basement and 64 degrees on the main floor. I will say this. The basement maintains 74 degrees ALOT longer with the insulation in the ceiling. There's no question that sound wise the room is much "tighter" with the R-19 in the ceiling. By no means am I an expert, but I think most building contractors would also tell you that new construction homes with finished basements have insulation in ceilings. Are you going with a plaster ceiling or a drop ceiling?

 

[lbcynya]

Thanks for the replies! I'll likely skip the insulation and go with 1 layer of sheetrock followed by Greenglue and a second layer of sheetrock. This should give me some insulation and very good soundproofing. We'll see.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Remember what ever you do, do it to code.

 

[packerfan]

I wouldn't expect too much heat being transferred to the upstairs to be a problem. Most posts here that I have read about basement installs mention that they can't get enough heat upstairs with a basement install, so I don't think you need to worry about overheating yourself in the room(s) above.