Flue Water Leak...ideas??

[agford4x4]

OK, i have an issue with my chimney flue. Its a double wall as far as i know. I did not install it or have it installed, it was already there when we moved in, and has never had a fire in it. It seems when it rains moderately, i get water running down the outside (and inside) of the flue. It doesnt pour in, but its a fair amount i think. I have attached some pics of my setup and where it leaks. The sealant on top is good, though it looks cracked. Whats wrong with this thing?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Metal]

I don't know what brand of pipe you have (it should be on a sticker on the pipe somewhere). It looks like the casing vents (right below the cap itself) are not covered by a storm collar (the storm collar is about 1-2" below it). If you know what company makes the pipe it would help alot, so we can look at their installation instructions to see what (if anything) should be covering the casing vents.

 

[agford4x4]

As far as i know, its CFM or Vermont Castings...the fireplace is a SHR42 if that helps.

I believe the flue is an 11 inch, double wall...i think i remember 11CF....there arr not stickers visible on the flue that i have noticed. Im not sure at all what cap is on there, but probably only one that will go.

I am guessing thats the brand of the flue and cap...thats what the manual mentioned.

After some reading, it looks like RLTCFL11 is the proper cap. Whether thats what is on it or not, i don't know.

 

[Metal]

It looks to me like your pipe is installed upside down. Below you will see a picture taken from the installation manual for your stove and it shows the male end of the casing pointing down and the female end pointing up (so water would stay inside). I am not an expert on Temco, and maybe you posted your picture upside down, but I would say if the pipe is installed upside down, there are probably some issues with sealing up top too.

 

[begreen]

What an odd cap. It may be just me, but I prefer a top cap with a brim. That cap doesn't look like it would stop a 5mph wind from blowing rain in the stack.

 

[Metal]

I agree, I thought it was a Direct Vent cap for a gas stove at first look.

On further looking, the previous pic I posted is the inner flue, maybe the outer flue goes in the opposite direction ( I can't find a picture anywhere showing the outer pipe connections.

 

[gpcollen1]

It looks like a little wind and rain combo and water will be getting in. Need a better cap..

 

[agford4x4]

As for it being upside down, that is EXACTLY what i thought when looking at the manual i have. However, i cannot tell from the manual picture what side is 'inside' the pipe. If the left is inside, then clearly, its upside down. If the right is inside, then its not. I was thinking if it was flipped over, then smoke might come out.

Also, can you even install it upside down starting at the fireplace?


OK, so i called a certified installer of this system. They say its impossible to put it upside down....so that answers that question. The cap still sucks though, i agree.

That cap doesn’t look like it would stop a 5mph wind from blowing rain in the stack.

And you would be correct.

So, the next question.

Whats a 'better cap' for a 2 wall 11" system like this?

 

[begreen]

Almost nothing is impossible. We've seen upside down pipe installations posted here. The way to tell is to open a joint. The inside pipe liner should fit - inside - of the liner below it.

 

[Shane]

Alot of times the outer wall of those chimneys does go male end up. Unfortuneately the snap lock design of that majestic chimney makes it really difficult to take apart and check. Also I don't think there is another approved cap for that particular chimney system.

 

[agford4x4]

Well, does the storm collar look right? It seems to me its about useless. Whats its purpose? Should it really be there, or should it be UNDER the cap, covering the exterior liner vents?

If i open my damper and peek inside, i can see water trickling down, there isnt a lot i can do about that, nor do i care if its there. I DO care if its coming on the OUTSIDE of the exterior liner and into my chase and eventually onto the firestop/wood/whatever.

 

[Metal]

This is how the manual shows it.

 

[agford4x4]

Yeah, i saw the manual, and from what i can tell, even if i put the storm collar there, thats not really solving any problems. I think the consensus is that its getting IN those vent holes to the exterior portion. Is there something else i can do to solve my problem since the cap is the approved cap for the setup?

 

[begreen]

Maybe attach a roof over the installed cap? A 10" -12" circle or cone would be better than nothing.

 

[Hogwildz]

I'm not so sure the pipe is run upside down.
Double wall has both inner & outer flanges. so the out will look like its running wrong but in reality the inner has a flange running into the next pipe below.
Your pipe reminds me of the stuff Corie and I used on the donor install we did. Almost looks like a clamped seam system. Are they seam clamps over each seam area?
I think that was Selkirk (spelling) we used.

As far as the water leak, it might not be the cap. but more the storm collar &/or the top plate.
I can see the caulk is cracked. Also the pan looks custom made from galvanized sheet metal. Chances are, they made it on site, and it might not have an upturned flange around the hole. If thats the case, there is no flange or lip to keep water from running in. The caulk would be the only barrier. And if the caulk is cracked, then water will find its way in. Check the caulk before tearing things apart. An easy way to check is on a dry day pour or hose some water around that area and on the caulk, start at the caulked top plate area around the pipe. Then check below for signs of water. The do the same with the storm collar. You want to start low & work up so you know where the leak is coming in exactly. If you start high, now you don't know if its the collar or the top plate or both. Easy enough to do, and no need to tear things apart yet.
This is how I chased roofing leaks for years, works well to find em.

 

[agford4x4]

Cool. Thanks for the tips. Thats what i tried exactly. I could not get it to leak from water around the 'cracked' caulking. If you look at the picture i posted, you can see the water comes in a particular seam. It seams to me that if it was leaking around the pan, then the leak would come in from the very top. At any rate, the thing to do anyway, would be apply more flashing caulking around the cracked caulking before it does leak. Any particular type, or just the clear stuff made for flashing?

 

[Hogwildz]

Cool. Thanks for the tips. Thats what i tried exactly. I could not get it to leak from water around the 'cracked' caulking. If you look at the picture i posted, you can see the water comes in a particular seam. It seams to me that if it was leaking around the pan, then the leak would come in from the very top. At any rate, the thing to do anyway, would be apply more flashing caulking around the cracked caulking before it does leak. Any particular type, or just the clear stuff made for flashing?

High temp silicone should do it. Work it in good with your finger tip. Silicone is useless unless worked in.

 

[Shane]

I'm willing to bet it's not a leak at all but condensation running out of the outer wall joints. I've seen it ten million times on ZC fireplaces.

 

[agford4x4]

Well, it doesnt condense out unless it rains.

 

[agford4x4]

Well, it turns out that fireplace people cannot change the cap out since it is specific to teh design of the fireplace. I will put some caulking on it and see if that fixes it. If not, then i will have no choice but to try to caulk the seam on the flue it self. I can't have water running down and sitting on the firestop in the attic liek that, it can't be good.

 

[JimWalshin845]

Take a hose or bucket of water up with you next time. See if the water puddles around the flue. Appears to me that the metal cap wasn't "X'd" to flex upward in the center when it was originally installed. Caulk would only be a temporary fix since the sun will make that cap expand and contract extensively. I had one years back, it puddled, I built the area up and solved the problem.

Good luck,
Jim