1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

FREE Chain oil

Post in 'The Gear' started by Extremebison, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,473
    Loc:
    Arrow Bridge,NY

    Re-read my post Sisu Simon!
    Never said HM's weren't in waste oil.
    Risk management and living in a glass house don't work.
    Any of your engines leak oil in the drive?
    Ever use WD or PB blaster to wrench on something.
    Ever oil your bike chain?
    What kind of laundry detergent do you use?
    Do you use hair gel?
    Wife use hairspray?

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. ddug

    ddug New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    55
    Loc:
    SW New Mexico
    Not sure what I missed, Just because there is more in the air (I am taking your word for this as I do not know) doesn't mean there isn't any in the used oil, nor does it deem the theory "bunk".

    When I was a kid my neighbor poured his used oil around the perimeter of his home, "keeps the bugs down" he stated. Live and learn.
  3. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,473
    Loc:
    Arrow Bridge,NY
    The theory that enviros use to poopoo the use of waste oil due to heavy metals is bunk.

    It's in the oil, air, and exhaust already!
    Hell. HM's are in crude right out of the ground.
  4. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    15,972
    Loc:
    Anderson, Indiana
    I do lot of milling in one spot all used oil.....I am still mowing and the grass is green. Cant believe there is many using more oil than I do. New vs used splitting that frog hair down this time.
  5. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Ontario
    The point I have been trying to make is that you have a choice. I am aware that my activities and the activities of others have impacts positive or negative. If my engine is leaking oil, I would get it fixed. I do use oil products, but I choose not use waste oil. Laundry detergent I use is phosphate free, but I know it not 100 percent benign. I burn wood, knowing that there are certain pollutants emitted. However, I choose to burn clean and dry firewood, and not railway ties. I use a chainsaw, but I choose to hand split my wood.

    What you seem to be asserting is that because someone engine leaks oil or uses hair gel means that you are correct in using waste motor oil as bar-oil. Why add to the problem?
  6. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    15,972
    Loc:
    Anderson, Indiana

    How would filter used oil be any different than new bar oil that is the POINT!
  7. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Ontario
    Depends on the type of filtration. Recycled waste oil is usually filtered and refined. Filtration removes any solids. Distillation separates the contaminants like heavy metals. Crude oil is also distilled, removing/reducing naturally occurring contaminants such as heavy metals etc., to produce oil that can be used.

    If you just filter your used motor oil (via cloth etc), all you are doing is removing any suspended solids that would clog your bar oil feed. Majority of contaminants in the used motor oil would still be there. So the difference between new vs used is that new bar oil does not contain all the contaminants that used motor oil does.
  8. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,473
    Loc:
    Arrow Bridge,NY
    Where do these mysterious contaminants come from?
    Engine block/components? Thin air?Houdini?
    I don't know any mechanics that have died from metal exposure.
    Most engine wear occurs above cylinder stroke and is exhausted.Lower engine parts are bathed in oil. Are these parts made from some mysterious highLEE contaminated metal.Is it lead? If so maybe they (craigs fav word) should regulate the steel/automotive industry.
    BTW denim, filters I believe I read at one time < 1 micron. Which is better than any over the counter filter you can buy.
  9. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Ontario
    These components come from a number of sources. The engine materials, compression and heat are a few of them. They add and change the original oil. The fact is used motor oil has more contaminants. The science has been done and reviewed. http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...40619cdcdffb1df9a32eac40031915ae&searchtype=a

    Anecdotal evidence doesn't equate to the truth. It is the dose that makes the poison. Usually there are chronic health effects related to heavy metal exposure. Unless it is a considerable dose, death is not immediate. Used motor oil is only one of many hazards faced by mechanics. www.sjweh.fi/download.php?abstract_id=1883&file_nro=1

    Also, filtering only removes suspended solids that are large enough. If the oil is getting through, so are most of the contaminants. Any way IMHO using waste motor oil as bar oil is like using railway ties as firewood. When a cleaner alternative exists, why opt for the greater evil?
  10. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,473
    Loc:
    Arrow Bridge,NY
    So what your saying is ALL oil that makes it through a filter is contaminated. What about the contamination (heavy metals) from when crude comes out of the ground? Does that make it through?
    If the EPA approves of it's use in heating systems and mixed with diesel then so do I.
    After all I don't walk through the woods like Luke Skywalker with an 066 litesaber spewing oil everywhere. 99% of the oil ends up on the wood and gets burned which the EPA approves .
  11. okotoks guy

    okotoks guy New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    118
    Loc:
    Alberta
    MATT DAMON!!!
  12. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Ontario
    Crude is distilled into the various petroleum products. Distillation does not carry the metals much like the distillation of contaminated water into drinking water.

    The thing to understand that EPA approval does not equate to endorsement. I am sure if you called your local EPA, they would not recommend the use of used motor oil as bar oil. In fact you should call them to ask to make sure.
  13. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,473
    Loc:
    Arrow Bridge,NY
    Distillation requires high heat.
    What about the metals involved in the distillation equipment?
  14. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Ontario
    http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/oil-refining4.htm

    Metals would involve stainless steel probably? Not like a lead soldered copper still.
  15. bogydave

    bogydave Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    8,426
    Loc:
    So Cent ALASKA
    I think filtering used MO would be a good thing. Look in the bottom of the jug after you've left the
    oil sit in it for a few months. Black gunk.
    But it has worked for many years as chain bar oil.
    If I used used oil for bar oil, I'd filter it.
    Most oils are petroleum based. Nature breaks down small amounts pretty quick if it is not in a puddle.
    If I had a chain saw mill, I'd use used oil (& find a way to filter it) . That in itself is being an conservationist, getting
    2 uses for one product. Consuming 1/2 as much. I like it!

    Maybe try an earth magnet taped on the bottom of the jug, see how much ferris metal it attracts after a
    few days. May find out you engine may soon be due a rebuild LOL :)

    I'm with you. Used MO will work just fine. But I would filter mine
    I just got lucky & got 10 gallons of new Delvac 10W-30W diesel engine oil, free. That's my bar oil.
    Should last a while. The MSDS says it's almost drinkable, pretty benign stuff as chemicals go.
    If I wanted it more sticky for my bar & chain, I'd mix a few ounces of STP/gallon with it.
    But I've cut for many years, & only changed the bar because it was bent (operator error).
    (Bars wear even if you use bar oil, that's why the op manual says to file off the burr every once in a while)
    As far as environmental concerns, check out the pollutants of a 2-cycle engine. Maybe electric chain saws are the answer. Just long extension cords :) LOL
    But we'll still need bar/chain oil.

    When we cut ice, we use vegetable oil. Works but I don't know if it works as well for wood.
    But it is supposed to be more environmentally friendly. Same if we cut up a moose, vegetable oil.
    We just have to run it a while to purge the petroleum oil out of the system before it is used on the carcass.

    But please, no more laws to regulate me/us, I/we can't afford any more help form our government.
  16. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,473
    Loc:
    Arrow Bridge,NY
    WOW!!!!! We went from knowing WTF we were talking about to PROBABLY ????????????????????????????
  17. Mcbride

    Mcbride New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2010
    Messages:
    202
    Loc:
    Mcbride BC Canada
    All I ever use in my saws for bar oil is used engine oil.
    I do use a funnel with a fine mesh screen filter in it though to fill it, to keep the crap out.
  18. Extremebison

    Extremebison New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    58
    Loc:
    Yukon Canada
    I run synthetic in both my truck and my Jetta. What or the health problems with fake oil?

    Recycling is a love hate relationship with me anyways. Part of me wants to do the right thing, then the practical me kicks in and I pull my head out of my ass.

    Common sense tells me that sending any product just to the proper recycling plant, whether it's paper, oil, tin, alum. or glass. Takes way more energy, vrs reusing the material and make use of it again somehow in day to day living at home, even if it means tossing it in a pit and burying it.

    Just the transport alone to get a new jug of bar oil sent to Whitehorse Yukon burns more fossil fuels and pollutes more then my chain saw will ever put out into the environment.

    Same as going for building materials for the cabins I build, I cut my own wood locally with used motor oil vrs buying timbers shipped from across the country, who's saving the enviro. know!!!
  19. Extremebison

    Extremebison New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    58
    Loc:
    Yukon Canada
    Another good point here is I ripped 60 16foot 8x8 timbers for the last cabin I built plus countless ruff lumber, still on my original bar on my mill.

    Woodbug recommends engine oil as they claim it has better lub properties compared to over the counter bar oil. I believe my bar life is directly reflected in using motor oil, for the better. It's also better for saw performance and chain wear, saving the whole system from wear and tear. How much energy and waste goes into building a new bar for a saw? or chain? or replacing a wore out saw. Not to mention shipping, and the carbon foot print as a whole. To get the new product to the store in Whitehorse.

    Also I read somewhere bar oil is what's left after the oil has been refined, they slap a label on the jug and sell this buy product. Another carbon foot print created what do you do with the jug, send it back to Vancouver from Whitehorse to a R plant. Just a theory I got really no back up on this one, did read it somewhere at sometime, but I wouldn't be surprised if bar oil was the worst grade oil one could buy. I'll have to look into this one more. Why would you put poor grade oil in your saw?

    Total joke really. I refill and reuse my jugs with waste oil and stock pile the oil for when I mill or cut wood.

    No product is perfect but one has to look at the whole picture, and usually take the greater of the lesser evil

    This is all from my environmental stand point, we haven't factored in how much money in the long run I may be saving!!!

    Thats just my two cords on it.
  20. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,343
    Loc:
    NW Ontario
    How about using tinyurl.com instead of trashing the thread with such ridiculously long URLs.
  21. OhioBurner©

    OhioBurner© Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    694
    Loc:
    Central Ohio
    Yup everyone always looks at the direct effects and not the indirect. If you ran out of oil and had to make a trip to town just for oil to finish cutting for the day you'd probably cause more pollution in the trip than compared to the jug of used motor oil thats sitting there...

    Veggie oil might be better when just looking at its effects dumped into the environment but that doesnt mean it doesnt pollute... lots of fuel went into the tractor that planted and harvested, the semi truck that hauled it, the facility that processed it, the tires on the vehicles, the paint on the tractor, the factory that made the paint, the trucks that hauled in the raw materials... its endless cycle of pollution. Unless you go back to the stone age and dont process any raw materials other than by hand, you are going to be polluting.

    So when you do properly recycle oil, how many heavy metals are released to recyle it? Dont forget about the emissions from the coal powerplant thats supplying half of the power that refinery is using...

    I would think the epa would prefer you not to use bar oil either, or a 2 stroke motor.Better get that felling axe back out, or grab a buddy and a two man saw...

    +1 We are all polluting, just to minutely different levels.

    Agreed, this thread is mostly splitting frog hairs.
  22. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Ontario
    I am not sure what you mean. I don't work in the oil refining industry. Nor do I understand what you are trying to say or why you are so passionate over using used motor oil.

    I have spent over 10 years in the Environmental Health and Safety field. Dealing with exposures and hazardous materials is an everyday thing with me. I have been involved with the clean-up of countless contaminated sites etc. all over Canada, from the south to the Arctic. In that regard, I do know what I am talking about.

    My intent was to bring an awareness of the potential hazards of using waste oil as bar oil. It is a fact that it is more hazardous than using regular bar-oil. Filtering through jeans does not eliminate these hazards. If you are looking for an EPA recommendation for its use, talk to them.

    I was not trying to invoke a visceral response that some posters have expressed. This idea that the "grass is still green" or that "I don't know anyone who has been impacted" is not always the best indicator. I have been to many countless contaminated sites that look lush with greenery. It is what you can't see that can hurt you.

    Is using used motor oil going to cause the end of the world as we know it? No. Will it permanently contaminate the bush you are cutting in? No. Can it harm you or decrease your life-span? Yes. Can it potentially contaminate water we drink? Yes. Is regular bar-oil 100 percent benign? No. Is it cleaner than used motor oil? Yes.

    We wood-burners have an up-hill battle for a lot of people who view wood-burning as a major air polluter. We are much like hunters. Both are misunderstood and viewed as not politically-correct. Yet, hunters and wood-burners have way more reverence, respect and understanding of nature than most people. So we don't help our cause by not trying be safe and to cause as little impacts as possible in the bush. That is worth more than saving a few bucks.

    A wise man once said "You spit on the earth, you spit on yourself".
  23. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Ontario
    I apologize for the trashing the thread with the "eyesores". I thought that you could click on the link vs cutting and pasting?! I hope I didn't violate the forum rules?!?!
  24. Battenkiller

    Battenkiller Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,732
    Loc:
    Just Outside the Blue Line
    Or using BB code to do it at the keyboard:


    Then type in what you want here[/url}

    You need to use a square bracket at the end in order for it to work. I used the other type so I could illustrate the code.


    Looks like this when you are done:

    Just Another Inappropriate Scientific Study


    A bigger pet peeve for me is using the "quote" function to copy sixty-seven responses in a row. Edit the dang thing in the BB text box, please. We've been warned it uses up bandwidth. Probably doesn't help with server response time, either. Plus, it makes a thread almost impossible to read.


    Anyway, carry on. Haven't seen a good old-fashioned donnybrook here on Hearth in a while. I'm going for more coffee and that last piece of Holiday baklava. ;-)
  25. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,343
    Loc:
    NW Ontario
    I think you misunderstood. It's not about clicking versus copy/paste. It's about a page getting wider than the screen and not being able to read the lines without scrolling side to side.

    Perhaps you use a different browser or you have a wide monitor and the page didn't side scroll for you.

Share This Page