Freezing in the Northeast - Alderlea T6 vs F500 Oslo

[TChan4]

Hi, my family just moved to the Northeast from much warmer lands and we have found ourselves in a bit of a predicament. We purchased an early 1800s brick farmhouse which we discovered has exactly zero insulation. It is essentially a tall narrow box, with a stone foundation for a basement half underground, the main living floor, the bedrooms upstairs and a steep attic. There are two staircases that go from the main floor to the bedrooms, one from the front door and one from the back, meeting at the middle of the upstairs hallway. Not including the basement or attic, the home is approximately 2,000 sq ft. The only operational chimney is interior to the right side of the home with a straight chimney up through the attic. There was originally a matching chimney on the left side of the house, but no longer. Now to the tricky part: the previous owner ripped out the oil boiler and radiator system that was used to heat the home and installed a Heat Pump. Apparently she discovered that a heat pump didn't actually work below 40 degrees to heat the home and she jammed an old wood stove in the remaining chimney. We were told this heated the house. It was July, we had no idea. Nevertheless, we promptly discovered our first winter that it does not, in fact, heat anything past the three feet surrounding the stove and one bedroom above the stove that has a grate warming from the stack.

We would not like to freeze half to death again this winter and would love some recommendations for our situation. The local chimney place sells the Alderlea T6 which is great and that I really like... however stove would have to be deeply inset into the chimney like the old clunker we currently have. I understand the T6 will have a blower which will help warm the home, but we frequently have no power here, up to a week, due to this small town not having a good grasp at maintaining power lines apparently. Also because it must be deeply inset, the cool little swing out wings will not open and I cannot use it to direct-cook on the surface in the event of a power outage.

The other option I have considered is the Jotul F500 V3 (NON-catalytic, I just don't need that stress in my life), with a blower. I understand there are some great reviews, and some less than great reviews. But it could be installed using the rear-entry and sit further out onto the hearth so that in the event of no power, we have better natural convection and can also use the top for some cooking.

Also concerned about all the heat shooting upstairs duet the staircases.

I really thought the Vermont Castings were beautiful and they also have rear entry, but I was told to stay far away from VC. Attaching a couple of pictures take right after the chimney company did an inspection so there's fallen vermiculite everywhere and ash.

Thank you so much in advance!

 

[begreen]

That's a small opening. What are the fireplace dimensions?

The T6 has a much larger firebox than the F500, but I am not sure it would fit and agree that it would be buried in that fireplace. Have you looked at Woodstock stoves? Their stoves can be rear-vented. Maybe consider a Progress Hybrid or Ideal Steel.

 

[TChan4]

That's a small opening. What are the fireplace dimensions?

The T6 has a much larger firebox than the F500, but I am not sure it would fit and agree that it would be buried in that fireplace. Have you looked at Woodstock stoves? Their stoves can be rear-vented. Maybe consider a Progress Hybrid or Ideal Steel.

I will have to go measure the dimensions of the opening again, but the T6 does indeed (barely) fit according to the company who came out as this is the model they suggested and that they measured for. I just really worry about being set back and not having the functionality of the swing out top grates. Thank you so much for suggesting the Woodstock stoves, but I am pretty set against a catalytic model at this time and it appears those are both catalytic stoves if I am reading their website correctly.

 

[bigealta]

Would a jotul f45 or f55 work in that space?

 

[Highbeam]

I will have to go measure the dimensions of the opening again, but the T6 does indeed (barely) fit according to the company who came out as this is the model they suggested and that they measured for. I just really worry about being set back and not having the functionality of the swing out top grates. Thank you so much for suggesting the Woodstock stoves, but I am pretty set against a catalytic model at this time and it appears those are both catalytic stoves if I am reading their website correctly.

Yes, all cat stoves from Woodstock. Good ones but still cat stoves.

 

[moresnow]

Have you researched the efficacy of your wood supply related to its level of seasoning?
Being new to the area and having had poor results your first season of burning leads to this question.
Most firewood needs to sit in split form for 1 to 3 years depending on specie to be dry enough for good performance.
Prior to being put into a wood stove.
Has this fact been researched or considered/understood?
If you are purchasing firewood from a local seller, it is very likely not seasoned correctly.
No modern stove will function correctly without seasoned fuel.
Fill us in on your fuel supply.
Good luck!

 

[KDubU]

I have a similar hearth and am installing the Jotul F55 that I am rear venting. The hearth opening is 29” high on ours and we opted for the short legs option so it will work well. It’s non-cat as I wanted a simple stove for my wife to operate as originally was going with the Woodstock Progress Hybrid.

Your issue though sounds like there are other issues with the house itself. Is the heat pump a mini split? If so and it’s fairly new then it should operate down to -15 to -20 albeit efficiency is much less. Also depends on whether proper sizing was performed as one compressor would have to be beefy for that house and layout plus you would need several inside wall mounted units. Also what are you doing about insulation?

 

[TChan4]

Would a jotul f45 or f55 work in that space?

It appears the f45 would be undersized. The f55 would be better suited however it is sadly about 1/2" too tall if any portion must sit in the fireplace at all. The hearth pad extends 34.5 inches from the wall and the F55 is 24.5 in deep. I am not sure if that is too little amount of hearth pad left.

 

[TChan4]

I have a similar hearth and am installing the Jotul F55 that I am rear venting. The hearth opening is 29” high on ours and we opted for the short legs option so it will work well. It’s non-cat as I wanted a simple stove for my wife to operate as originally was going with the Woodstock Progress Hybrid.

Your issue though sounds like there are other issues with the house itself. Is the heat pump a mini split? If so and it’s fairly new then it should operate down to -15 to -20 albeit efficiency is much less. Also depends on whether proper sizing was performed as one compressor would have to be beefy for that house and layout plus you would need several inside wall mounted units. Also what are you doing about insulation?

SHORT LEGS you say? I am looking around their website and not seeing this option. My fireplace opening is 29.5 in tall so VERY similar to yours. What portion of the stove do you intend to have sitting in the fireplace itself without sacrificing radiant heat? Will you install the blower kit with the F55? Thank you so much!

 

[TChan4]

I have a similar hearth and am installing the Jotul F55 that I am rear venting. The hearth opening is 29” high on ours and we opted for the short legs option so it will work well. It’s non-cat as I wanted a simple stove for my wife to operate as originally was going with the Woodstock Progress Hybrid.

Your issue though sounds like there are other issues with the house itself. Is the heat pump a mini split? If so and it’s fairly new then it should operate down to -15 to -20 albeit efficiency is much less. Also depends on whether proper sizing was performed as one compressor would have to be beefy for that house and layout plus you would need several inside wall mounted units. Also what are you doing about insulation?

To answer your other questions, the heat pump is not a mini split. It is a full central system with handlers in both the basement and attic. It it well over ten years old by the serial number and it appears the girl who installed it got it used when she did. They simply cut holes in all the historic hardwoods and ducted to each vent. It works great in the summer but past November it simply doesn't work.

Regarding insulation, the only areas with access are the basement and attic where we plan to roll out batts between the joists this fall. There is no way to tear down every interior wall in the entire house to build out space to house insulation along the sides, though. So its just us and the bitter cold trying to toughen up in that regard.

 

[TChan4]

Have you researched the efficacy of your wood supply related to its level of seasoning?
Being new to the area and having had poor results your first season of burning leads to this question.
Most firewood needs to sit in split form for 1 to 3 years depending on specie to be dry enough for good performance.
Prior to being put into a wood stove.
Has this fact been researched or considered/understood?
If you are purchasing firewood from a local seller, it is very likely not seasoned correctly.
No modern stove will function correctly without seasoned fuel.
Fill us in on your fuel supply.
Good luck!

Thank you so much for this reply! Actually I know very little about life up here at all. I have taken to apprenticing myself and trying to learn from the older, wiser, and more successful. I have a few friends with similar houses who use only wood heat and have taken to purchasing from their suppliers. I can say that thankfully wood is easy to buy here as most everyone uses it. It may not be the best, but these are old families who have been doing life here many years so I figured it was a good starting point. Their houses are so cozy and warm and the consensus has been the very undersized stove we have is also set too far back in the chimney to help us. This could certainly be a piece to the puzzle I see however.

 

[KDubU]

SHORT LEGS you say? I am looking around their website and not seeing this option. My fireplace opening is 29.5 in tall so VERY similar to yours. What portion of the stove do you intend to have sitting in the fireplace itself without sacrificing radiant heat? Will you install the blower kit with the F55? Thank you so much!

Yes short legs are available. They cost an extra $140-150. My plan for the hearth is installing a block-off plate in the chimney and also plan to install metal sheeting painted black behind the stove and partially on the sides. This will all be attached to the current brink and painting it black will make it kind of disappear. This will help reflect the heat back into the house and hopefully prevent the masonry from soaking up all the heat. I am not planning a blower and instead will have a fan on the floor blowing cool air towards the stove plus also have a ceiling fan set to suck air upwards and back down the walls in that area of the house. Our first floor is mostly open concept and the only area of concern is the cathedral ceiling but that is where the fan is located. I may install a larger fan to really move the air.

 

[KDubU]

To answer your other questions, the heat pump is not a mini split. It is a full central system with handlers in both the basement and attic. It it well over ten years old by the serial number and it appears the girl who installed it got it used when she did. They simply cut holes in all the historic hardwoods and ducted to each vent. It works great in the summer but past November it simply doesn't work.

Regarding insulation, the only areas with access are the basement and attic where we plan to roll out batts between the joists this fall. There is no way to tear down every interior wall in the entire house to build out space to house insulation along the sides, though. So its just us and the bitter cold trying to toughen up in that regard.

For insulation have you thought about having a service drill holes in the exterior walls and blowing in expanded foam? I think you stated it’s a brick exterior so they would have to do this from inside I believe. If you are going with batts in the attic or anywhere, get Roxul as it’s a much better product. Easy to install, cut, fire retardant and mice are not a fan of it like fiberglass insulation. Honestly fiberglass batts are the worst form of insulation IMHO.

 

[EbS-P]

Don’t overlook the big 3cu ft inserts. Yes they need power but if you loose it that often you should have some backup power plan. Batteries generator ect. If you get a stove in there I highly suggest a fan and a block off plate. Both really help get the heat where you actually want it.

Have the heatpump serviced by a good tech if you haven’t already. Keep the filters clean.

The other option you could consider is a wood furnace.

 

[kborndale]

Your money would be better spend insulating and air sealing the house. I understand that will be difficult to do but it's what needs to be done.

 

[TChan4]

Thank you for the suggestion on the insulation batts! I am not a candidate for the foam style insulations that are pumped in between joists as I have significant chemical sensitivities though.

 

[TChan4]

Your money would be better spend insulating and air sealing the house. I understand that will be difficult to do but it's what needs to be done.

Absolutely and we will be insulating the floor under the main level as well as the attic this fall for sure. Ripping every wall out is simply not feasible for us however and we are just doing the best we can. Thank you for your reply.

 

[TChan4]

Don’t overlook the big 3cu ft inserts. Yes they need power but if you loose it that often you should have some backup power plan. Batteries generator ect. If you get a stove in there I highly suggest a fan and a block off plate. Both really help get the heat where you actually want it.

Have the heatpump serviced by a good tech if you haven’t already. Keep the filters clean.

The other option you could consider is a wood furnace.

Thank you! When you mention a fan, is that the blower? Or do you mean a fan away from the stove to direct air flow? The block off plate is thankfully included in the stove installation quoted by the local chimney company! The tech that came out mentioned that was another issue with why we weren’t getting heat…it was getting sucked right up the chimney.

 

[bigealta]

A simple box fan on the floor pointed at the woodstove works very well. That's what i use and it works.

 

[TChan4]

A simple box fan on the floor pointed at the woodstove works very well. That's what i use and it works.

Thank you. And it does not work against the blower on the stove, correct?

 

[bigealta]

Also your interior chimney does help hold some heat as it's a brick heat sink. Dry / seasoned firewood puts out Sooo much more heat than wet or unseasoned wood.

 

[bigealta]

I don't have a blower. The box fan is all that's needed for me. The idea is to place the box fan to blow air around the sides and back of the stove to help draw that heat out into the room.

 

[bigealta]

And just to add some perspective
Good very well seasoned wood is 99% of the job.
1% would be an upgraded wood burner.

This is because without good wood you really can't make much heat.
Great wood even in that woodstove you have will produce good heat . Maybe not great but still it should work. With non seasoned wood no woodstove will make very good heat. Yes it will burn, but heat output will be poor.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If they sell the T6, they’ll also sell the Summit. It’s the same firebox, minus the cast iron. It’ll fit a bit better.

Get your wood put up now! Get it dry!

 

[kborndale]

Thank you. And it does not work against the blower on the stove, correct?

The blower blows warm air up high away from the stove. The box fan would be on the floor blowing cold air towards the floor creating a convection loop which works very well.

Also, to repeat what others are saying, the #1 most important factor in heating with wood is to have dry (under 20% MC) firewood. It's very rare that you can buy wood this dry. You generally need to be a year (or more with dense hardwoods) ahead on your wood supply. Get a moisture meter. They are less that 30 bucks.