We're hoping to build a new house this year and am planning on putting in a woodstove on the back wall of the great room. The back wall doesn't go all the way to the ceiling since there is a loft directly above. Our thought was just run double wall pipe up to the peak then out to the roof. The problem is the ceiling height of the room is 20ft. We can't afford to do a full masonry chimney or even a plywood built-up/rock sided and wanted to do just the stove pipe. I was told you can't rest the entire pipe weight on the outlet of the stove and that there would have to be some supporting bracket somewhere. Is this true? Not sure where would could support it, since the loft is directly above. Thanks for the help.
Great room with 20ft metalbestos pipe?
- Thread starter jzinckgra
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summit
Minister of Fire
a ceiling support package from most brands should be able to handle 20' of double wall, plus the weight of the class a behind it. The stove will stabalize the pipe from below, a roof support and an roof brace should probably be used to keep the upper end from trying to torque it all on the support like a pivot.
jimbom
Combustion Analyzer
Mine had some factory made supports for the bottom, through the ceiling/floor, and at the roof. Also, you might consider a way so you can take things apart to clean. I am not sure how you could clean the flue if the metalbestos connects to the stove.
marine5068
Member
If you are building a new house, then opt for a wood stove install centrally located in the great room. That is, nearer to the center of the house. Wood stoves will heat MUCH better located here and you will be happier you did it this way. They just heat the space much more efficiently when centrally located because of their radiant heat style.
I'm heating my 2000sq ft. house this way and am in-the-know about all matters of this type of heating set-up being an Architectural Engineer for most of my 20 year career.
But you don't have to be studied in Architecture to know this. Ask around about the facts of wood stove heating and you too will come to the same conclusion.
As for chimney installation. If you have a open air straight run from stove to vaulted ceiling, then use a standard black stove pipe all the way up to the ceiling and the use a triple insulated super-flue style stainless chimney through the attic space and out onward to the chimney cap.
This way you get the benefit of the black stove pipe giving off more heat from it as it radiates the heated smoke inside it out into your great room. And it costs you less for the standard stove pipe and less of the stainless steel super chimney(which can be pricey at $80 per 3-4 foot section). The black pipe will also look great going straight up that far. There is a kit to join the two that looks black and can be supported from the ceiling as well.
This way you only need to support the stainless chimney section with the support kit.
The use of one or two independently wired ceiling fans placed at the peak of that 20' ceiling is also a must to push the trapped heat down to you below and to cool the place in the Summer.
Just some suggestions at how to design a good heating system using a wood stove in a large open-concept great room.
Sounds great. Have fun designing the place and good luck.
~Stan Banfield
Madoc, Ontario, Canada
/Architectural Engineering
/Mechanical Engineering
/Certified Welder
I'm heating my 2000sq ft. house this way and am in-the-know about all matters of this type of heating set-up being an Architectural Engineer for most of my 20 year career.
But you don't have to be studied in Architecture to know this. Ask around about the facts of wood stove heating and you too will come to the same conclusion.
As for chimney installation. If you have a open air straight run from stove to vaulted ceiling, then use a standard black stove pipe all the way up to the ceiling and the use a triple insulated super-flue style stainless chimney through the attic space and out onward to the chimney cap.
This way you get the benefit of the black stove pipe giving off more heat from it as it radiates the heated smoke inside it out into your great room. And it costs you less for the standard stove pipe and less of the stainless steel super chimney(which can be pricey at $80 per 3-4 foot section). The black pipe will also look great going straight up that far. There is a kit to join the two that looks black and can be supported from the ceiling as well.
This way you only need to support the stainless chimney section with the support kit.
The use of one or two independently wired ceiling fans placed at the peak of that 20' ceiling is also a must to push the trapped heat down to you below and to cool the place in the Summer.
Just some suggestions at how to design a good heating system using a wood stove in a large open-concept great room.
Sounds great. Have fun designing the place and good luck.
~Stan Banfield
Madoc, Ontario, Canada
/Architectural Engineering
/Mechanical Engineering
/Certified Welder
Thanks for the suggestions. I should have mentioned that the stove won't be the primary heat source as we're putting radiant floor heating in. However, we use our current woodstove quite a bit this winter and I can see us doing that same in the new house. I'm not sure my wife would like the stove square in the middle of the great room, but I understand the benefits.
Renovation
New Member
Another option is to run the Class A down almost all the way to your stove to a wall support, and then a short run of stove pipe. On the plus side, it would offer excellent draft and creosote resistance. On the negative, Class A is more expensive than double-wall stove pipe.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
jzinckgra said:
The weight of the chimney connector shouldn't be an issue. It will be attached to the ceiling support box with screws,
so some of the weight will be taken up there. Today's stoves are built like tanks & most weigh 300 - 400 pounds. Your
connector pipe ain't gonna hurt em.
yooperdave
Minister of Fire
excellent ideas from marine. it sounds like your stove placement will already be about midpoint of the building?? i think this is what he suggested as opposed to midpoint of the room. ceiling fans will help out immensely. and like he said, single wall pipe up the the penetration will help greatly in cost reduction and greater heat recovery. just be sure to maintain your clearances as they change for single wall pipe as compared to class a metalbestos pipe. if you go with the metalbestos all the way down to the stove, be sure to use the wall mount brackets for the extra weight issues. does the stove you are using vent out of the top, or the rear? (if so from the rear, remember of the extra weight issue which will be stressing onto the elbow at the stove.) good luck and hope to see some pics.
I'll have to check on code to see if single wall is allowed, even with the proper distances. Never thought of using that to save some money. Yes, stove will be central to main floor. I haven't decided on a stove, but will likely focus on one that vents from the top to avoid the weight issue on the elbow.
You can only use the single-wall up to the ceiling (loft floor). As soon as it penetrates the floor it must transition to class A. That's why folks are mentioning the ceiling support box. It's what is going to carry the weight of the heavier class A pipe. The connector pipe, whether single or double-wall, is not going to weigh that much.
PS: Just to confirm, this is a freestanding woodstove, correct? I want to be sure that you are not talking about a zero-clearance fireplace.
PS: Just to confirm, this is a freestanding woodstove, correct? I want to be sure that you are not talking about a zero-clearance fireplace.
yes, on the freestanding. we're not running the pipe up through any floors. it will be on the back wall of the great room. so basically, you'd have an 8ft wall which then stops and transitions to the railing area of the loft. the stove pipe would pass directly in front of the loft and up to the ceiling of the great room (20')
Got it, for a pipe that length, I strongly recommend using double-wall, connector pipe instead of single wall. There will be too much cooling of the flue gases with single wall.
FWIW, considering this is new construction, I'd look at the cost benefit of the cathedral ceiling. They are a giant waste of space to me. In the least, consider what to do to reduce heat stratification, which will be significant.
FWIW, considering this is new construction, I'd look at the cost benefit of the cathedral ceiling. They are a giant waste of space to me. In the least, consider what to do to reduce heat stratification, which will be significant.
I had to look up what the heck a "great room" is. I guess I have one in my house, even though I have always called it the living room haha! Ceiling in house is 9 ft other than in living room/kitchen where it peaks up to ~15ft. Pretty much a waste of space/heating extra for nothing, but it does look nice.
yep, definitely realize the heat loss with the giant ceilings, but we've always wanted a room like this. it's one of those "must haves".
jzinckgra said:
As fuel gets more expensive I think our priorities will change. Same with folks not placing the heat source centrally in the house. We have friends that thought the same way. They put a big high ceiling in their addition. Every few years they would ask me for help in "adjusting" their heating for the space and the stove sizes grew larger. It's funny how after a decade they went from "must have" to "what were we thinking?".
We've had this installation since 1992. The Hearthstone Heritage was new right after Thanksgiving, replacing the VC Resolute Acclaim we purchased when we built the room. The room is 24' wide (right to left in the picture) and 36 feet long. One of the things my wife like about the Heritage is that the back side of it is as attractive as the rest of it-they don't mar it up with a data plate.
The Heritage is a bit big for the space, but I chose it for the convenience of the side loading door. I simply fire small loads frequently, letting them burn hot and counting on the stone to even things out.
The Heritage is a bit big for the space, but I chose it for the convenience of the side loading door. I simply fire small loads frequently, letting them burn hot and counting on the stone to even things out.
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YankeeFarmer said:
We'll also have to contend with the beam at the top of the ceiling. I think I would rather off center the stove relative to the wall then put a bend in the pipe like you have. Did you guys consider that?
I located the flue off center because Selkirk didn't make a roof penetration kit that would accomodate an exit at the peak of the roof. I wanted to locate the stove in the center of the room, and the advantage of the offset is that it permits flexibility for expansion of the stovepipe and installation/removal for cleaning.
My very first installation I didn't have much pitch in the semi-horizontal section and it would accumulate ash and creosote chips. I used to have to clean in the middle of the heating season. (I always clean prior to the start of the heating season.) When I put in the Hearthstone, I went with the 22 gauge Heat fab welded seam single wall pipe with adjustable length sections for the straight at the stove exit and the 45 degree piece.
I understand the aesthetic appeal of going straight up, but the engineer in me believes you need to build flexibility in to accomodate thermal expansion. Unless you use the adjustable length sections-which I didn't know about, or maybe weren't even available 18 years ago, I don't see how you could even assemble a straight up section without having to slide up and down a bunch on the transition piece to the double wall pipe.
My very first installation I didn't have much pitch in the semi-horizontal section and it would accumulate ash and creosote chips. I used to have to clean in the middle of the heating season. (I always clean prior to the start of the heating season.) When I put in the Hearthstone, I went with the 22 gauge Heat fab welded seam single wall pipe with adjustable length sections for the straight at the stove exit and the 45 degree piece.
I understand the aesthetic appeal of going straight up, but the engineer in me believes you need to build flexibility in to accomodate thermal expansion. Unless you use the adjustable length sections-which I didn't know about, or maybe weren't even available 18 years ago, I don't see how you could even assemble a straight up section without having to slide up and down a bunch on the transition piece to the double wall pipe.
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