gremlin in Enviro EF4

[Kristy]

Noob here and I need help with my Enviro EF4. A short time ago the stove just started to stop feeding pellets and the exhaust/combustion blower just stops while the fire is going, filling the room with smoke. It's not shutting down-it just stops. The auger light stays on (there is only 1 light to indicate when the auger is turning) but nothing is turning. Once this happens I have to let the stove sit and reset whatever is going on (unplugging does not reset it). It has slowly gottten quicker and quicker as to when it shuts off, so that maybe 10 sec. after it starts up it stops (without anything having lit obveously).
I have bypassed all of the sensors (1 at a time) and it does not seem to affect the problem. When I bypass the vacuum switch the auger will turn, but the exhaust fan does not come on. When I bypass the 140' exhaust temp sensor, the fan temp. senor, the ignition temp sensor, and the high limit temp. sensor have no effect. The high limit temp. sensor has not tripped. I have bypassed them when the stove was stopped (as the auger light just stayed on) to see if it remedied what was causing the error. Should I wait to bypass them when the stove is running properly?
The stove has 3 solid state, 2x2, timer control switches. I tested them all and have power coming out of all of the load portions of the switches (I don't know if this conclusively proves they are working properly). I replaced the auger timer control recently, so I know it is working. The blower control timer also works independently of the error. The third one is the start up timer control. This one bypasses the low temp. sensor so the stove will run when cold. I thought that perhaps this switch is bad, but can't figure out why it would cause the stove to stop functioning with the sensor bypassed. The auger does not have power going to it when the light stays on and the stove stops functioning. I am at a loss as to what is going on. This isn't a coplicated stove but nothing seems to make sense. I thoroughly cleaned the stove (including the exhaust pipe) and I checked the vacuum hose and oulet for the hose (there was smoke coming out of it when the stove shut down once, so I know it's not blocked). I have also replaced the exhaust blower since the problem started-same result. It doesn't seem like it should be this difficult to solve. Before I start throwing parts at it anyone have any suggestions? I am planning on selling the stove at the end of the season, so I don't want to spend a lot trying to find the right part to fix it. The two photos are of the Solid state timers. The second photo is of the start up timer control module (on the bottom of the 1st photo).

 

[Delta-T]

the 2 grey wires go to a phase controller (first pic)...that could be your issue if the combustion blower runs fine with 120V going direct to it. you can test your voltages coming from the board to the blower itself (69volts on setting 1, line level at setting 5). If the voltages aren't close its probably the board.

 

[Kristy]

the 2 grey wires go to a phase controller (first pic)...that could be your issue if the combustion blower runs fine with 120V going direct to it. you can test your voltages coming from the board to the blower itself (69volts on setting 1, line level at setting 5). If the voltages aren't close its probably the board.

Are you saying the convection blower motor wires on top? I haven't had any issues with the convection blower (it seems to function normally). Or are you saying the circuit is interrupted somehow. The combustion/exhaust blower is the one that shuts down. Sorry if I don't follow what you're getting at, but electrical is not my thing. Explain everythig as if I know nothing because that's pretty much true. Thanks.

 

[jtakeman]

I'm betting its not the controller. I think its your blower thermaling(getting hot). Clean and lube the blower. You might even need to completely tear it apart to get all the dust bunnies out of it. Or replace the blower.

Post a picture of the blower, I bet there are dust bunnies hanging out of it.

 

[Kristy]

I should also let everyone know that I only have an automotive multimeter to test the electrical components with and I am basing info on that.

 

[Kristy]

I'm betting its not the controller. I think its your blower thermaling(getting hot). Clean and lube the blower. You might even need to completely tear it apart to get all the dust bunnies out of it. Or replace the blower.

Post a picture of the blower, I bet there are dust bunnies hanging out of it.

I replaced the exhaust blower (it's brand new as of last week) and I vacuumed and blew off with compressed air the convection blower-so I'm positive they are good. The whole stove has been thoruoghly cleaned (including the exhaust pipe).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'm betting its not the controller. I think its your blower thermaling(getting hot). Clean and lube the blower. You might even need to completely tear it apart to get all the dust bunnies out of it. Or replace the blower.

Post a picture of the blower, I bet there are dust bunnies hanging out of it.

X2

ETA: While you are at it clean the venting as well.

 

[jtakeman]

I'm betting its not the controller. I think its your blower thermaling(getting hot). Clean and lube the blower. You might even need to completely tear it apart to get all the dust bunnies out of it. Or replace the blower.

Post a picture of the blower, I bet there are dust bunnies hanging out of it.

I replaced the exhaust blower (it's brand new as of last week) and I vacuumed and blew off with compressed air the convection blower-so I'm positive they are good. The whole stove has been thoruoghly cleaned (including the exhaust pipe).

I have never seen a dial a fire shut the blower off. They either send power or don't. When the controller fails it usually is dead. The meter you have is OK to test with if it has AC voltage settings. With power off connect the leads in with the blower wires(carefully not to short things out). Fire up the stove. If the power does as delta said and stays steady. Its the blower motor. If the power cuts out to zero then its the controller(again doubt it but you never know).

Keep us posted

 

[Kristy]

I'm betting its not the controller. I think its your blower thermaling(getting hot). Clean and lube the blower. You might even need to completely tear it apart to get all the dust bunnies out of it. Or replace the blower.

Post a picture of the blower, I bet there are dust bunnies hanging out of it.

X2

ETA: While you are at it clean the venting as well.

I already cleaned the exhaust piping/vent piping.

 

[Delta-T]

according to my wiring diagram for the EF4 the grey wires go to the phase controller, then 1 of the leads (brown) goes to the combustion blower. You could follow the brown wire from the combustion blower back to the phase controller. ahh, couple different sets of grey wires, now I see whay that would be confusing, sorry.....def follow the brown wire from the blower to the phase controller. All wires going to the convection blower should be purple....at least according to my diagrams.

 

[Kristy]

I'm betting its not the controller. I think its your blower thermaling(getting hot). Clean and lube the blower. You might even need to completely tear it apart to get all the dust bunnies out of it. Or replace the blower.

Post a picture of the blower, I bet there are dust bunnies hanging out of it.

I replaced the exhaust blower (it's brand new as of last week) and I vacuumed and blew off with compressed air the convection blower-so I'm positive they are good. The whole stove has been thoruoghly cleaned (including the exhaust pipe).

I have never seen a dial a fire shut the blower off. They either send power or don't. When the controller fails it usually is dead. The meter you have is OK to test with if it has AC voltage settings. With power off connect the leads in with the blower wires(carefully not to short things out). Fire up the stove. If the power does as delta said and stays steady. Its the blower motor. If the power cuts out to zero then its the controller(again doubt it but you never know).

Keep us posted

Sorry I didn't initially see your post. To clarify you want me to test the exhaust/combustion motor to make sure it is good? I have replaced the motor already and just to be sure that the exhaust motor wasn't the problem I reattached the old motor to see if the stove would start -it didn't. Should I wait until the stove resets? It seems to have no rhyme or reason as to when it resets or why it shuts down. It has shut down with both motors installed. At to the timers, the Auger timer control is new (as of last week). The phase control timer (that controls the convection blower) seems to function normally- the fan comes on and varies it's speed regardless of if the stove is functioning. That's why I thought the start up control timer may be screwing it up. Bypassing all of the sensors seems to have no effect-aside from the vacuum sensor that makes the auger turn without the exhaust fan running.

 

[jtakeman]

I'm betting its not the controller. I think its your blower thermaling(getting hot). Clean and lube the blower. You might even need to completely tear it apart to get all the dust bunnies out of it. Or replace the blower.

Post a picture of the blower, I bet there are dust bunnies hanging out of it.

I replaced the exhaust blower (it's brand new as of last week) and I vacuumed and blew off with compressed air the convection blower-so I'm positive they are good. The whole stove has been thoruoghly cleaned (including the exhaust pipe).

I have never seen a dial a fire shut the blower off. They either send power or don't. When the controller fails it usually is dead. The meter you have is OK to test with if it has AC voltage settings. With power off connect the leads in with the blower wires(carefully not to short things out). Fire up the stove. If the power does as delta said and stays steady. Its the blower motor. If the power cuts out to zero then its the controller(again doubt it but you never know).

Keep us posted

Sorry I didn't initially see your post. To clarify you want me to test the exhaust/combustion motor to make sure it is good? I have replaced the motor already and just to be sure that the exhaust motor wasn't the problem I reattached the old motor to see if the stove would start -it didn't. Should I wait until the stove resets? It seems to have no rhyme or reason as to when it resets or why it shuts down. It has shut down with both motors installed. At to the timers, the Auger timer control is new (as of last week). The phase control timer (that controls the convection blower) seems to function normally- the fan comes on and varies it's speed regardless of if the stove is functioning. That's why I thought the start up control timer may be screwing it up. Bypassing all of the sensors seems to have no effect-aside from the vacuum sensor that makes the auger turn without the exhaust fan running.

Test the voltage to the blower while running as normal. When the blower quites we need to know does it still have power or not. With no power it is most likely the controller. It would be odd as these controllers are usually bullet proof. But you never know......

 

[Kristy]

I'm betting its not the controller. I think its your blower thermaling(getting hot). Clean and lube the blower. You might even need to completely tear it apart to get all the dust bunnies out of it. Or replace the blower.

Post a picture of the blower, I bet there are dust bunnies hanging out of it.

I replaced the exhaust blower (it's brand new as of last week) and I vacuumed and blew off with compressed air the convection blower-so I'm positive they are good. The whole stove has been thoruoghly cleaned (including the exhaust pipe).

I have never seen a dial a fire shut the blower off. They either send power or don't. When the controller fails it usually is dead. The meter you have is OK to test with if it has AC voltage settings. With power off connect the leads in with the blower wires(carefully not to short things out). Fire up the stove. If the power does as delta said and stays steady. Its the blower motor. If the power cuts out to zero then its the controller(again doubt it but you never know).

Keep us posted

Sorry I didn't initially see your post. To clarify you want me to test the exhaust/combustion motor to make sure it is good? I have replaced the motor already and just to be sure that the exhaust motor wasn't the problem I reattached the old motor to see if the stove would start -it didn't. Should I wait until the stove resets? It seems to have no rhyme or reason as to when it resets or why it shuts down. It has shut down with both motors installed. At to the timers, the Auger timer control is new (as of last week). The phase control timer (that controls the convection blower) seems to function normally- the fan comes on and varies it's speed regardless of if the stove is functioning. That's why I thought the start up control timer may be screwing it up. Bypassing all of the sensors seems to have no effect-aside from the vacuum sensor that makes the auger turn without the exhaust fan running.

Test the voltage to the blower while running as normal. When the blower quites we need to know does it still have power or not. With no power it is most likely the controller. It would be odd as these controllers are usually bullet proof. But you never know......

I have power to the exhaust motor with the stove nonfunctional (atleast the mulitimeter says it's at 119 see photos). I also tested the phase controller and got the same reading on the load section of the timer -brown wire on the left). I can't get the stove to reset at the moment-last time it took a day to do it. I just can't see how 2 exhaust motors could do exactly the same thing. I could jump it and see if it runs with direct power, but like I said 2 of them?

 

[jtakeman]

If you have power to the motors, Some thing is making them over heat. Inside the motor is a thermal fuse that when it gets hot will open to protect the motor. I have no idea whats coauseing it but it could be lack of air flow around the motor area or thru the exhaust housing.

A test to see if its indeed heat. Leave the covers off and get a small house fan and aim it at the blower. If she runs?

Edit:

Couple things that could make the blower over heat. Inside the blower housing it necks down just before the stove pipe adapter. Be sure its completely clear.

I have seen them not run with silicon used in place of the proper gasket between the motor and the housing. Silicon doesn't isolate it from the heat of the exhaust like the gasket does.

 

[Kristy]

If you have power to the motors, Some thing is making them over heat. Inside the motor is a thermal fuse that when it gets hot will open to protect the motor. I have no idea whats coauseing it but it could be lack of air flow around the motor area or thru the exhaust housing.

A test to see if its indeed heat. Leave the covers off and get a small house fan and aim it at the blower. If she runs?

Edit:

Couple things that could make the blower over heat. Inside the blower housing it necks down just before the stove pipe adapter. Be sure its completely clear.

I have seen them not run with silicon used in place of the proper gasket between the motor and the housing. Silicon doesn't isolate it from the heat of the exhaust like the gasket does.

I took the old motor and plugged it in-it barely started to spin and then stopped. Then took the same motor over to another pellet stove (EF2) and it worked normally. It is not the exhaust motor. I also discovered that I get a reading from testing the wires but when I plug in the motor the voltage is gone. Something is shutting it down. Any ideas.?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you were having issues with wind at the same time that can also cause the combustion blower to thermal off as the wind if it is directly at the vent can slow down the exhaust flow overheating the blower.

If your vent's horizontal section does not have a rise the same thing can happen. If it in fact has a dip it even easier to trip the thermal. The blower just stops and doesn't restart until the thermal says it is ok.

When this happens the vacuum loss should start the stove towards shut down by killing the fuel feed.

Other things that can cause the same effect but is a different cause is loose connections.

While it is possible that the controller is really going wacko it would be down the list a bit. It is always good to check the voltages (and recording them) across the combustion blower while the blower is running and on different heat settings to get a list of how it should be.

 

[jtakeman]

If you have power to the motors, Some thing is making them over heat. Inside the motor is a thermal fuse that when it gets hot will open to protect the motor. I have no idea whats coauseing it but it could be lack of air flow around the motor area or thru the exhaust housing.

A test to see if its indeed heat. Leave the covers off and get a small house fan and aim it at the blower. If she runs?

Edit:

Couple things that could make the blower over heat. Inside the blower housing it necks down just before the stove pipe adapter. Be sure its completely clear.

I have seen them not run with silicon used in place of the proper gasket between the motor and the housing. Silicon doesn't isolate it from the heat of the exhaust like the gasket does.

I took the old motor and plugged it in-it barely started to spin and then stopped. Then took the same motor over to another pellet stove (EF2) and it worked normally. It is not the exhaust motor. I also discovered that I get a reading from testing the wires but when I plug in the motor the voltage is gone. Something is shutting it down. Any ideas.?

There could be a current limit built in or the PHASE CONTROLLER is weak. But I have never seen or heard it happen. I leaning towards the controller. But this is all something I have never crossed. We have some techs that stop in from time to time. Maybe they have seen it. Digging thru the tech manual, It sounds like the 50-312 PHASE CONTROLLER is the needed part.

Keep us posted!

 

[Kristy]

If you were having issues with wind at the same time that can also cause the combustion blower to thermal off as the wind if it is directly at the vent can slow down the exhaust flow overheating the blower.

If your vent's horizontal section does not have a rise the same thing can happen. If it in fact has a dip it even easier to trip the thermal. The blower just stops and doesn't restart until the thermal says it is ok.

When this happens the vacuum loss should start the stove towards shut down by killing the fuel feed.

Other things that can cause the same effect but is a different cause is loose connections.

While it is possible that the controller is really going wacko it would be down the list a bit. It is always good to check the voltages (and recording them) across the combustion blower while the blower is running and on different heat settings to get a list of how it should be.

I would do that if I could get it to run longer than 10. sec. I'm not sure what else to do. My exhaust piping goes straight out the wall and should not be affected by the wind. It's been that way since installation (7-8 years). What would shut the stove down immediately without the shut down process? That's what's happening. If the 200' manual reset temp sensor went bad what would that do? I don't mean went off, I mean malfunctioned. Could the dial a fire cause it? Anything else? The owners manual says if it won't start and you've already jumpered the start up switch, to replace the timer. It's $70 shipped and I don't want to buy it and be wrong when I'm selling the stove down the road.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you were having issues with wind at the same time that can also cause the combustion blower to thermal off as the wind if it is directly at the vent can slow down the exhaust flow overheating the blower.

If your vent's horizontal section does not have a rise the same thing can happen. If it in fact has a dip it even easier to trip the thermal. The blower just stops and doesn't restart until the thermal says it is ok.

When this happens the vacuum loss should start the stove towards shut down by killing the fuel feed.

Other things that can cause the same effect but is a different cause is loose connections.

While it is possible that the controller is really going wacko it would be down the list a bit. It is always good to check the voltages (and recording them) across the combustion blower while the blower is running and on different heat settings to get a list of how it should be.

I would do that if I could get it to run longer than 10. sec. I'm not sure what else to do. My exhaust piping goes straight out the wall and should not be affected by the wind. It's been that way since installation (7-8 years). What would shut the stove down immediately without the shut down process? That's what's happening. If the 200' manual reset temp sensor went bad what would that do? I don't mean went off, I mean malfunctioned. Could the dial a fire cause it? Anything else? The owners manual says if it won't start and you've already jumpered the start up switch, to replace the timer. It's $70 shipped and I don't want to buy it and be wrong when I'm selling the stove down the road.

Are you saying the stove just quits as in nothing runs?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The over fire manual reset snap disc would completely stop any fuel feed if it was tripped. Are you manually lighting the stove?

 

[Kristy]

There could be a current limit built in or the PHASE CONTROLLER is weak. But I have never seen or heard it happen. I leaning towards the controller. But this is all something I have never crossed. We have some techs that stop in from time to time. Maybe they have seen it. Digging thru the tech manual, It sounds like the 50-312 PHASE CONTROLLER is the needed part.

Keep us posted![/quote]

How do I test the phase controller to see if it is indeed malfunctioning? I already tested the load and got 119 volts. How else could I test it? Could the dial a fire be bad?

 

[Kristy]

[

Are you saying the stove just quits as in nothing runs?[/quote]

The only thing that will function normally is the convection blower, it comes on and varies with the dial. Everything else will not function and the auger light stays on. The exhaust blower will not turn and the auger is completely stopped. It initially did it when the stove had run for approx. 2 hours- it just shut off (not shut down) and filled the room with smoke. It's gradually worked down to about 10 sec. (the auger turns and exhaust blower is on) and then they both just stop.

 

[jtakeman]

How do I test the phase controller to see if it is indeed malfunctioning? I already tested the load and got 119 volts. How else could I test it? Could the dial a fire be bad?

You already tested it. See quote!

I took the old motor and plugged it in-it barely started to spin and then stopped. Then took the same motor over to another pellet stove (EF2) and it worked normally. It is not the exhaust motor. I also discovered that I get a reading from testing the wires but when I plug in the motor the voltage is gone. Something is shutting it down. Any ideas.?

If power is dropping out it the phase controller. You said you have an EF2 there, Take the phase controller from that and put it into the EF4. If it runs as normal. You have your answer.

 

[Kristy]

The over fire manual reset snap disc would completely stop any fuel feed if it was tripped. Are you manually lighting the stove?

It wasn't when it did this. I have before. It's ina detached garage and waiting for it to light can be pretty uncomfortable. I was under the impression that if the sensor tripped the little red button would pop out. Am I incorrect? In any case I bypassed all of the sensors (while it was frozen) at one time or another and it mad no difference in getting it to run. What would need to reset to get it running again?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The over fire manual reset snap disc would completely stop any fuel feed if it was tripped. Are you manually lighting the stove?

It wasn't when it did this. I have before. It's ina detached garage and waiting for it to light can be pretty uncomfortable. I was under the impression that if the sensor tripped the little red button would pop out. Am I incorrect? In any case I bypassed all of the sensors (while it was frozen) at one time or another and it mad no difference in getting it to run. What would need to reset to get it running again?

It is hard to determine by sight if one of those switches has actually gone pop. Likewise it can be hard to tell when it has been reset.

You can jump it for a test. But do not run that way.