Harman P61 trouble

[Juscar8ts]

I am having a tough time figuring out the feed rate, etc. on my P61 stove. I've literally cleaned this thing from top to bottom, inside and out. I have the temp setting turned up to 7 (basically all the way), but I can't set the feed meter past 2, it simply starts dropping half burned pellets into the ash bin. I know the type of pellet matters and I've tried both less than 1% and less than .5% ash pellets. First it was Energex, now I'm burning Barefoot. I've tried it with both the outside air hooked up and not hooked up. I'm stumped.....at full temp, I don't think I could ever set the feed at 4-6...I would just be wasting pellets, which seems wrong.

Some more info, I bought this stove used, very nice home, sat in a finished basement. Only used a few times a year, just got too hot for the room. Regular professional service performed, documents provided. I just replaced the door handle, would not close tightly before; now the door is nice and tight. Also replaced the burn guide, since old one was cracked.

Cleaning: cleaned out bottom of burn pot, holes in burn pot, removed everything inside to clean piping, combustion chamber, etc. Outside air flapper moves freely.

Finally, at feed rate 2, I'm getting a nice big flame. It's blue at the bottom and almost touches the heat exchanger. I either get ash build up like in the picture or pellets falling into burn pot.

Am I over thinking this, and my stove is ok? Just burn good pellets at feed rate 2 to 2 1/2, and be happy? How do I know if I'm getting max output and heat. I have a temperature laser, but have no earthly idea where to check.

I know a ton of questions in one post, but I'm at my wits end.

 

[alternativeheat]

If you are burning Energex hardwoods you will get a ton of ash like that, you periodically scrape it off into the ash pan. I've never had pellets dropping off and I've run maxed out as a test with normal feed rate setting between 3-1/2 to as much as 5 depending on the pellets. When you run at full heat the idea is to trim back the feed rate till you form a 1 inch ash line or so without dropping pellets off the pot into the pan. As long as you can do that you are good, even if it's a pretty low setting. It's very pellet grade dependent at full heat. I don't know anyone who runs a P61 that hot in daily use though, I sure wouldn't want to have to supply it with pellets every day ( that would be about a 5 bag day I imagine) ! Still you should be able to trim the feed back so as not to drop pellets off the pot.

When is the last time the ESP sensor was cleaned ?

 

[Juscar8ts]

I did not remove the probe and clean it, that is the only thing I didn't clean. I cleaned the chamber where it is located, but not the probe. This stove is in my basement, and it's the first year that I'm burning it. It's replacing a 1920 antique parlor wood stove, that had to be fed every hour. I don't plan on running it at full blast all the time, but I'm trying to heat the basement and 1st floor. I've switched pellets, and I'm now burning Barefoot, to see if there is a difference. So far "No difference", at feed rate of 3, it drops pellets off the front. My understanding is the feed rate is set up in 10 second intervals, setting 1 feeds for 10 seconds out of every minute, 2 feeds for 20 seconds, etc. When I check it with a stop watch, it's pretty darn close. I guess the part that confuses me, is settings 4-6???? I figured at high temp, it should be able to run at 4-6 feed rate, and it's should be pumping the out the heat. Why put a setting on there that you can't use? Any idea on how to check output temp? How do I know I'm getting all the BTU's out of a pellet/stove?

 

[MtDew]

Did you replace the flame guide or the fire brick? I can't see the flame guide in your picture. Is your room temp senor hooked up?
I would at least shut the stove down and clean that ESP probe and start from there.
Also isn't the P61's supposed to have 3 fire bricks standing vertical? I only see one laying horizontal.

Where in PA are you located?

 

[alternativeheat]

Did you replace the flame guide or the fire brick? I can't see the flame guide in your picture. Is your room temp senor hooked up?
I would at least shut the stove down and clean that ESP probe and start from there.
Also isn't the P61's supposed to have 3 fire bricks standing vertical? I only see one laying horizontal.

Where in PA are you located?

Good catch MT ! I didn't even notice those things. Yes it will not burn right without the flame guide in there. And yes it takes three vertical firebricks.

This is the flame guide that should be there sitting on top of the sides of the burn pot:

 

[MtDew]

I had forgotten to reinstall the flame guide after a cleaning myself and wondered why it wasn't burning correctly.

 

[Tonyray]

FRIGGIN GOOD CALL GUYS.
Have same stove and didn't catch that..

 

[alternativeheat]

I had forgotten to reinstall the flame guide after a cleaning myself and wondered why it wasn't burning correctly.

We had a guy visit us in the forum a couple of years back who bought a used P61 without the guide. He had similar issues to the OP, not sure about feed rates but ash and pellets everywhere as I recall. He bought a guide, installed and all was well. Now understand that I can't remember putting my shoes on in the morning so the details of that event might be fuzzy !

 

[Juscar8ts]

Yes, bought a new flame guide. But it's not curved, it's straight. The old one was cracked in half, and fell apart, but it was curved. All the guides online for the P61 now are straight, just thought it was the right one. I was also wondering about the bricks, however the owners manual says a "fire brick" is enclosed. I went to a Harman dealer and they had one brick in the floor model.

I mean, am I overthinking this? Or do you guys agree, it should run on feed settings 4-6 without dumping pellets; right? It should be hot as h***, but it should run though. I can't image the amount of pellets I would dump on setting 5 or 6.

I mean, maybe it's the flame guide. I changed that out and the door handle this past weekend and it seemed to go South from there. The door handle wouldn't keep the door tight, and I could see gaps by the door gasket. I also guess more bricks won't hurt, so I will get some more of those too.

 

[bags]

Clean your ESP probe and check your door rope gaskets to make sure they are sealing.

 

[alternativeheat]

With stove running take a flame from a candle or grill lighter and run it around the edge of the doors and see if the flame gets sucked inside the stove anywhere. If it does then change out the gaskets. Don't neglect the ash pan door.

My stove runs 24/7 all season at feed rate 4. I have run it on feed rate 5 during the 1 inch ash line test. Additionally, Small pellets can tend towards filling the pot on cold days when in room temp mode, in that case I sometimes cut back to feed rate to 3-1/2 ( rare, I had it set there once last year) but even at 4 the pellets have never overflowed.

My stove (p61a) is a 2013, actual build date 2012 I suppose, it has a straight or better term, flat flame guide, except for the eyebrow cut out for the feed tube. And it has 3 fire brick. The fire brick is stove protection, I doubt that having just one would effect or cause your overfeeding situation. A defective or dirty esp could, though defective ones tend to kill the flame in many situations, I suppose it could potentially be the other way around too.. Just depends how it is reading. A dirty probe is insulated so sends a signal to up the fuel to make more heat but usually also the combustion fan speed to keep the air mix right. IE, you burn more fuel that puts more heat up the stack thus satisfying the probe values. The correlation of stack temp to the values of the esp I believe is between 350 and 500 degrees and insulated probe can't feel those temps.

I wouldn't rule out a board issue. But let me ask a question, how did you clean that exhaust tube inside the stove, could you have bent the esp probe ?

 

[alternativeheat]

Clean your ESP probe and check your door rope gaskets to make sure they are sealing.

Yes and look to make sure the probe is not damaged/bent.. More than one person has rammed a cleaning brush through that passage and bent a probe. I use a piece of rag tied onto a cleaning rod and run that through there carefully passing by the probe, then swab it out good once past it.

 

[rickwai]

Typically the feed setting on most Harmans works well at 3-4 with good pellets. Feed adjustment is to compensate for different pellets. Somersets (short high btu pellets) are going to feed more efficiently thru the auger than a Thermaglo pellets (some pellets 1.5" in the mix ) dont feed as efficiently so not as much fuel or btus being fed into the pot per auger revolution. I could not imagine the inferno inside of a P68 with feed set at 6 with Somersets.

 

[Juscar8ts]

I like the candle idea. I can see the door gasket compressing now with a new handle, but maybe it' still leaking. I can see the probe, and it didn't look bent, but will remove, clean and check it. I've been cleaning the ashes more regularly since seeing a post on here. That actually seems to be helping a little. The pot is not filling up as much, and I've slowly been moving the feed rate up, I'm now about a hair above 2. And have turned the temp down just below 6. So maybe it is something with the air flow?

It's in the single digits here in PA, so I have to wait until the weekend to shut it down and check some of the things people are suggesting.

Question, is there a tube that needs cleaned between the outside air and the burn pot? Is there someplace weird I have to clean that I might have missed, that might be restricting air flow?

 

[alternativeheat]

Two wing nuts under the burn pot remove a hatch to that air tube and igniter. You generally just stick a finger in there and clean the ash out, when that get bad enough in there it will be hard starting , the flame will laze out a bit and lean forward some. FWIW I clean out in there one to two times per month.

If I want to physically inspect the ESP I remove it, otherwise I have a nylon bottle brush I use to clean it it. It hasn't been removed now in two years, the bottle brush trick works well enough it seems to me...

 

[Tonyray]

Use the brisell bottle brush also to clean the esp probe..
nice and gentle as it cleans pretty good..

 

[P51mustang]

I have a 2013 Harman P61A.....I may have missed it above so forgive me for asking. What mode are you running your stove in? Room temperature or Stove temperature? If in room temp., be sure your probe is attached properly and some distance away from the stove itself. This probe controls the stove so is essential in it operating correctly. If in Stove temp. mode, a clean, properly installed and operating ESP is essential as mentioned above.

Given the various factors that dictate each individuals stove and proper settings, It seems to me that your heat setting is way too high and your feed rate too low. For instance, I put my feed rate at 3 and rarely raise it beyond that. Occasionally 4 on very cold days such as this week here in way upstate, NY (Lowville, NY, Lewis County)....I set the heat at 70 degrees and rarely above that. Depending upon your model year, you may have to also adjust the dial labeled "heat setting" for room temp. mode (note the bottom of this dial controls the heat for Stove Temp. mode). I operate exclusively in Room Temp. manual mode and the stove runs 24/7 all winter.

Since you've now replaced the flame guide, I would try the settings I use and see how much heat you produce and monitor the pellets to see if they continue to drop off the burn pot and into your ash pan. You may want to raise them slightly, but depending upon your specific house size, layout, insulation, etc., I bet you'll dial this in correctly eventually.

PS....Buy two more bricks and place all three vertically in a row in the slot behind your burn pot. They assist in deflecting the heat away from the front of your hopper.

Keep us all posted on your progress and good luck.