Hearthstone Mansfield: 1995 vs 2015 vs something else?

[pvfjr]

(Skip to the last paragraph if you want to get to the point; the rest is just relevant info on my situation).

Hello all,
I've been doing some searching about stoves, and have determined that this forum is the most informative place on the net. We bought a house a year ago, and I'm finding our current wood stove's performance inadequate. We have a 2200 sq ft house with two stories. The stove is in the extreme corner of the house in the living room, nestled between two exterior walls. The pipe/chimney run is straight up, and probably tops out at 26' off the ground. It's on the windward side of the house (west), with some trees around. Sometimes I think this causes some positive pressure outside that gives us draft troubles when starting up cold, but it's fine after a few minutes.

The main problem is the inability to achieve long burn times, and the lack of heat distribution in the house. This thing will chase you out of the living room, but the entire upstairs is cold, and the rest of the house stays cool. The house doesn't have a very open layout, and I think the transom of the living room is blocking the heat flow. The firebox lacks height; I can't stack two 5" splits in there! This stove is just too small for this house. Maybe they just purchased it for ambiance? We have a modern gas furnace with forced air, but would prefer to use it sparingly.

I'm thinking this stove needs to be in a more central location. If I move it to the entry way (which would require a reduced-clearance install), it would be near the opening of the living room, the stairwell, the downstairs hall, and the dining/kitchen area. This sounds more effective to me. I also figured I should shoot for something bigger--I'm thinking 3 cu ft. I want to be able to wake up to a somewhat warm house, stoke, reload, and keep our new baby comfortable (without using so much gas).

So, I've started stove shopping. I'm in love with the Alderlea T6. I like the idea of the cooktop, but admittedly, probably wouldn't use it much. Even with our inevitable rural power outages, we have propane stoves. The T6 is $$$ though. I also kinda like some of the hearthstone models, but again, $$$.

So to get to the point, there's a 1995 Mansfield on CL in my area. It looks a little sooty around the door, and doesn't have the side-load door either. Other than that, it looks similar to current models. My big question is, can I expect the same emissions, efficiency, burn time, BTUs, etc out of this older model? The guy is fairly proud of it and is asking $2200 (he thinks including a Magic Heat creosote condenser is real special). I'd have to get him down in price, but he says it was used seldomly. Should I be concerned spending so much on such an old stove, or is it worth it if is in good shape? Also, how hard is it to clean the soot off of those soap stones? Could I make this thing look newer with little effort?

 

[webby3650]

I would steer clear of the used Mansfield. For starters I've never seen a Hearthstone that age that wasn't cracked, or any age really. They love to crack! I clean and service a few dozen different ones each year and they all have a crack somewhere.
The '95 will require an R value to the hearth. The Ashpan system has been improved and a few other subtle changes have been made. I sold mine for $900 last year. It was in excellent shape, except for a small crack of course..

 

[Ashful]

If you're trying to heat a house from one corner, you're going to want a convective stove. I believe this rules out a Mansfield, and perhaps favors an Alderlea.

 

[firefighterjake]

If you're trying to heat a house from one corner, you're going to want a convective stove. I believe this rules out a Mansfield, and perhaps favors an Alderlea.

I would disagree with this as a blanket statement . . . I do quite well with a corner installation with the Oslo which is considered more of a radiational stove (although to be fair I also added the base and rear heat shields). I think a large part of heating a home with a stove has to deal with the right size stove, lay out of the home in terms of air flow, design of the home (i.e. high ceilings vs low, transoms over the doors, open vs. closed design, etc.) and yes . . . to some degree . . . where the stove is located . . . with a central location generally being considered better for heating a home than a corner . . . but that said . . . it can be done.

 

[pvfjr]

I would steer clear of the used Mansfield. For starters I've never seen a Hearthstone that age that wasn't cracked, or any age really. They love to crack! I clean and service a few dozen different ones each year and they all have a crack somewhere.
The '95 will require an R value to the hearth. The Ashpan system has been improved and a few other subtle changes have been made. I sold mine for $900 last year. It was in excellent shape, except for a small crack of course..

Where do they crack, typically? Is it hard to find? I've got a welder, and it would make for some negotiation if I were to find a crack on it. I've been looking on the used market for a little while, and this is the only stove I've seen that's big enough. I do think he's asking way too much though.

I was thinking of building a preformed concrete hearth with a vented airspace, so that should probably take care of any R value requirements. It depends on the numbers I suppose.

 

[pvfjr]

If you're trying to heat a house from one corner, you're going to want a convective stove. I believe this rules out a Mansfield, and perhaps favors an Alderlea.

I agree, heating from the corner hasn't worked well--especially since the room has a closed off transom. If I got the Mansfield, I'd be trying to move it to a better location. Even so, perhaps a convective stove like the T6 would be better since I have multiple floors.

 

[Ashful]

I would disagree with this as a blanket statement . . . I do quite well with a corner installation with the Oslo which is considered more of a radiational stove (although to be fair I also added the base and rear heat shields). I think a large part of heating a home with a stove has to deal with the right size stove, lay out of the home in terms of air flow, design of the home (i.e. high ceilings vs low, transoms over the doors, open vs. closed design, etc.) and yes . . . to some degree . . . where the stove is located . . . with a central location generally being considered better for heating a home than a corner . . . but that said . . . it can be done.

As a generalization, my statement is correct, but there may be mitigating factors. First, by adding heat shields to the Oslo, you are definitely adding to its convective transfer coefficient, and reducing radiation. Second, since your primary mechanism for moving heat out of the stove room and into the other rooms of the house is via warm air transfer (convection), heating the air directly becomes the most efficient means to that end. Yes, you can use a radiant stove, which will heat the objects in its line of sight, in-turn heating the air around those objects, which can then be moved to other rooms. However, the air will not be heated as quickly or as warm, as it will only assume the temperature of the objects with which it is in contact. So, heating a subdivided house from a corner room can be done with a radiant stove, but a convective stove will always do it better.

 

[webby3650]

Where do they crack, typically? Is it hard to find? I've got a welder, and it would make for some negotiation if I were to find a crack on it. I've been looking on the used market for a little while, and this is the only stove I've seen that's big enough. I do think he's asking way too much though.

I was thinking of building a preformed concrete hearth with a vented airspace, so that should probably take care of any R value requirements. It depends on the numbers I suppose.

The stones themselves crack. Hearthstone says its from overriding, I disagree on most cases I've seen. The stones have natural veins in the stone, the cracks often follow these veins.
His price is totally out of control! I paid only $400 for mine when I bought it.

 

[begreen]

I agree, heating from the corner hasn't worked well--especially since the room has a closed off transom. If I got the Mansfield, I'd be trying to move it to a better location. Even so, perhaps a convective stove like the T6 would be better since I have multiple floors.

I think Jake has it more correct. This is more dependent on the stove location and floorplan. We have had the stove in the corner for the past decade. Prior stove was a very radiant Jotul Castine. It heated the house well, but just didn't have the capacity for very long burns or very cold weather in our leaky old house. It was replaced by an Alderlea T6 7+ years ago. The main difference in heating besides the obvious almost doubling in firebox capacity is that the heating is more even with the T6. The radiant Castine heated up the living room hotter to have the rest of the house at a comfortable temp. We felt this as greater temperature swings between loads. The T6 is more even because it is less radiant and has a lot more mass to slowly release heat in between loading cycles. It should be noted that the blower is used on low on the T6 only in the coldest weather to help circulate heat to the bathroom which is around the corner and down the hallway.

PS: Most Jotuls (if not all) sold in the US have the rear heatshield attached. However, I'm not sure all are open at the top or bottom.

 

[Ashful]

...Alderlea T6... heating is more even with the T6. The radiant Castine heated up the living room hotter to have the rest of the house at a comfortable temp. We felt this as greater temperature swings between loads.

This is EXACTLY what I had said, just arranged into different words, begreen.

 

[begreen]

For sure, I was agreeing with a real world example in response to pvfjr's comment about a corner installation. Note that I had to add a ceiling transom in order to reduce convective flow from the living room to upstairs. Before, the ceiling was flat to the hallway. This made a nice difference.

 

[webby3650]

I think Jake has it more correct. This is more dependent on the stove location and floorplan. We have had the stove in the corner for the past decade. Prior stove was a very radiant Jotul Castine. It heated the house well, but just didn't have the capacity for very long burns or very cold weather in our leaky old house. It was replaced by an Alderlea T6 7+ years ago. The main difference in heating besides the obvious almost doubling in firebox capacity is that the heating is more even with the T6. The radiant Castine heated up the living room hotter to have the rest of the house at a comfortable temp. We felt this as greater temperature swings between loads. The T6 is more even because it is less radiant and has a lot more mass to slowly release heat in between loading cycles. It should be noted that the blower is used on low on the T6 only in the coldest weather to help circulate heat to the bathroom which is around the corner and down the hallway.

PS: Most Jotuls (if not all) sold in the US have the rear heatshield attached. However, I'm not sure all are open at the top or bottom.

No Jotuls come with the rear shield except the 45,50,55 that I'm aware of. It's an option on the cast iron models.

 

[pvfjr]

The stones themselves crack. Hearthstone says its from overriding, I disagree on most cases I've seen. The stones have natural veins in the stone, the cracks often follow these veins.
His price is totally out of control! I paid only $400 for mine when I bought it.

Well I guess the welder won't help me there! Is it a big problem when the stones crack, or is it just cosmetic? Would I expect half a stone to fall off if it cracked, or do they usually stay in place? I suppose a stone could be reattached if we knew what they were originally bonded with. I saw some video somewhere that mentioned the cement being created with soapstone dust so it has the same thermal expansion coefficient. I don't know if that was BS or not though.

 

[webby3650]

Well I guess the welder won't help me there! Is it a big problem when the stones crack, or is it just cosmetic? Would I expect half a stone to fall off if it cracked, or do they usually stay in place? I suppose a stone could be reattached if we knew what they were originally bonded with. I saw some video somewhere that mentioned the cement being created with soapstone dust so it has the same thermal expansion coefficient. I don't know if that was BS or not though.

The cement is soapstone dust based.
The cracks allow unregulated air into the stove. It can only be fixed with a total tear down and rebuild typically.

 

[begreen]

No Jotuls come with the rear shield except the 45,50,55 that I'm aware of. It's an option on the cast iron models.

That is surprising. I couldn't buy an F3CB, F400 or F500 locally without a shield. Could be this is how local dealers are stocking them. That may be clearance driven.

 

[webby3650]

That is surprising. I couldn't buy an F3CB, F400 or F500 locally without a shield. Could be this is how local dealers are stocking them. That may be clearance driven.

Don't know why? They aren't standard.

 

[pvfjr]

The cement is soapstone dust based.
The cracks allow unregulated air into the stove. It can only be fixed with a total tear down and rebuild typically.

Wow, I guess I just assumed the soapstone was applied over the top of steel or something. That's good to know.

 

[begreen]

Good to know, thanks.

 

[pvfjr]

OK, so assuming that I can't get the guy with a Mansfield WAY down in price, or that it's more 'used' than he let on and would be a maintenance headache, I think I found a couple other viable options.

1. Pacific Energy Fusion, Stainless exterior panels, 2 years old, $800. It's VERY efficient, but only has a 2ish cubic foot box. Could I get an all night burn with this? PE says it's good for 2000 sq ft, and we're sitting at 2200. But then again, our climate is fairly mild. Single digits are exceedingly rare.

(Stock photo from ad).



2. Quadrafire 3100 Limited Edition with tile insert side panels, brand new from private owner, $1300. Again, it's not as big as the Mansfield or T6 that I originally considered, but may work.

(Actual photo, still in crate)


Neither of these look at all like the stoves I was originally looking at. I think what I'm primarily looking for (style wise) is something that's not a cookie-cutter square steel box. So what do you guys think? Decent deals? Viable for overnight burns and keeping 2200 sq ft warm in the PNW?

 

[begreen]

The Fusion is based on the core Super 27 firebox. It's quite good for overnight burns. That's a nice price for a very reliable and simple heater. That said I think your original quest for a 3 cu ft heater is correct unless just heating the stove room area is sufficient or if it's ok to use the central heating system for the few days when it gets very cold.