Heating a 2900 sf 1977 Ranch House in Maryland

[mellow]

Are you looking to go top vent?

 

[gzecc]

Ok full load I can maybe fit 60# of wood in. The 4.4cf firebox in the 28000 is stupid because, only about 3cf of firebox can be used because of the flue lever and the fact that if I jam pack it full of logs the front logs burn and the logs behind that just keep rolling into the glass on the doors. I wish I could get the stove to burn back to front so I don't have that risk. Many times I have opend the stove door only to have a burning log roll out on my feet, that's why I would really like a stove that load front to back so the logs can only roll to the sides and not into the glass door. When I say load every 4 hours I'm talking about adding 20# of wood (softer hardwoods) so I can maintain a higher temperatures, I'm not talking about reloading 60# of wood every 4 hours.

I have an 8in stainless flex liner in a chimney that's 24ft deep, from fireplace bottom to chimney cap. My fireplace is 36x28in but I'm not worried about fitting an insert in the fireplace because Im going to rebuild my fireplace to accomodate a free standing stove out in the room.

I would suspect you rounds, that are rolling forward are not seasoned, especially if they are oak (oak rounds take forever to season). I fully pack mine (28000) with medium and large splits. There is no rolling. You need to split your rounds.
Rounds will roll forward in any stove.

 

[WranglerBowman]

Doesn't matter to me whether it's top or rear vent. I would think that top vents work the best with a cat.

This is split Oak logs. Because the stove burns from front to back and bottom to top with the air intake located on the bottom front doors the logs closest to the air intake burn fastest and the logs behind it drop and can roll/drop against the glass. If you get a nice even burn from your 28000 where the logs don't burn from front to back and bottom to top I'm all ears. Do you have log dogs in your 28000 gzecc?

 

[gzecc]

Doesn't matter to me whether it's top or rear vent. I would think that top vents work the best with a cat.

This is split Oak logs. Because the stove burns from front to back and bottom to top with the air intake located on the bottom front doors the logs closest to the air intake burn fastest and the logs behind it drop and can roll/drop against the glass. If you get a nice even burn from your 28000 where the logs don't burn from front to back and bottom to top I'm all ears. Do you have log dogs in your 28000 gzecc?

Yes I do have the dogs. I assume you don't have the dogs? I have never had the rolling into the doors your referring to.

 

[blwncrewchief]

Ok full load I can maybe fit 60# of wood in. The 4.4cf firebox in the 28000 is stupid because, only about 3cf of firebox can be used because of the flue lever and the fact that if I jam pack it full of logs the front logs burn and the logs behind that just keep rolling into the glass on the doors. I wish I could get the stove to burn back to front so I don't have that risk. Many times I have opend the stove door only to have a burning log roll out on my feet, that's why I would really like a stove that load front to back so the logs can only roll to the sides and not into the glass door. When I say load every 4 hours I'm talking about adding 20# of wood (softer hardwoods) so I can maintain a higher temperatures, I'm not talking about reloading 60# of wood every 4 hours.

I have an 8in stainless flex liner in a chimney that's 24ft deep, from fireplace bottom to chimney cap. My fireplace is 36x28in but I'm not worried about fitting an insert in the fireplace because Im going to rebuild my fireplace to accomodate a free standing stove out in the room.

Much better and your numbers fit pretty well for your size house, actually I would guess a little conservative. I would venture to say based on those numbers the 4300 would be at the very bottom of getting you to 8 hour burns. Realistically it isn't going to make it on lower btu wood when it is cold. I really think for a secondary burn stove you are a good candidate for a 3-3.5 cu.ft. stove. Many available in this range and for a very good value. This size would still get you to 8+ hours even on wood like Red Maple when you become good at running the stove. Also this class of stove usually has a deep firebox making them natural for N/S loading. Running in real life 24/7 my average load in my 3.1cu.ft. stove is right about 1cu.ft. of wood (30-50#) loaded 2-3 times per day for my 1400sq.ft. ranch. That would be what I consider about a 3/4 load by the time you figure ashes, coals, not packed to the glass, and staying down 2-3" from the secondaries. Right now I am right at between 1.5-2 cords this year most of which has been lower btu wood such as silver maple, pine, and cherry. I should end up about 2.5-3 cords this year. While this winter has been warm for me it is probably very close to your normal winter.

The cat versus secondary stoves is a decision you need to make. As far as I'm concerned there is no clear winner and you need to decide based on the pro's and con's of each. There are happy people and dissatisfied people with each type. They are a little different in how they run, maintenance, burn times, startup/reload procedures, and general quirks that vary from stove to stove. I would say this should be the first decision you make. Then decide which stove from there. If you are going to go through all this work and expense to redo your whole setup make sure you get what will work good for you.

 

[WranglerBowman]

Thanks for the insight blwncrewchief and everyone else, I think I'm going to go with a cat stove and after reading about the Blaze King King I've been pretty impressed but if a Buck 91 happens to cross my path I will probably pick that up.

gzecc - I've stayed away from the log dogs or any kind of wood rack in my stove because I figured it would reduce my burn times. Can you give me some information on how you've used your 28000 and what some of your results have been, burn times, temps, creosote build up, ever tried a cat, etc...? Maybe we can compare some notes and see if we can improve on these old dragons some. Feel free to PM me if you want.

 

[gzecc]

The Buck 91 Catalytic is what I was orginally looking at before I thought I wanted better efficiency, then I went with the Quad 4300 because it seems more efficient then the 91. I have a moisture meter and the Oak has around 20 to 25% moisture content, not totally dry. I generally keep the flue closed as soon as I see a good bed of coals. During weekends I normally get secondary cumbustion with the flue closed the and intakes half open on the 28000. i realize the upgrade is expensive but I've been looking for used stoves, a couple years old that people decided they just don't want to fool with wood anymore. I've seen 4300's and 91's for sale in the last month but want to make sure I make the right decision and this site seems pretty "wood burner" educated for the most part. I'm liking the Blaze King but don't see any for sale within 400 miles of me and there's no way I'm dropping 3g's on something that doesn't move (car, tractor, etc...). I think I operate the 28000 just about as efficiently as I can given that it's an old dragon and I'm not home all the time.

The power generally goes out in our area 2 or 3 times during the winter, sometimes for a day. Have been without power for 3 to 5 days though during big Noreater events.

I am able to close my flue at 300 deg. That is about 3/4 hour from a cold start. I think your leaving your flue open too much. Most of your heat is going up the chimney. If you have good dry fuel, you don't need to wait for a good bed of coals. You need to wait for good operating temps to ensure efficient burn. In the evening around 11pm I load my stove about 75% full (if its an avg cold night), leave the air and door open a crack, wait until its fully engulfed (20mins), then I shut it down. I then wait to see what the door temperature maintains. If it stays in the 300 range (for 15min), I'm off to bed. The wife gets up before me a little before 6am. The stove is usually cycling on an off by then. I am always amazed that all the wood is gone. Depending on how much wood I put in and the size of the splits, the stove is always warm to the touch still at 8am. Hope this helps.

Above is my technique. I get about a quart of power like soot at the end of the year. My wood is super seasoned top shelf hardwoods.

 

[WranglerBowman]

Welp I bought a Buck Stove Model 91 about a month ago and have been very impressed so far. It's well engineered stove that kicks out a lot of heat with little wood. It's a 5 year old stove with a new cat and picked it up in WV, about a 5 hour drive one way, but worth the trip to me. I can't believe how long I can go between reloading when I use large logs. The only thing I dont' like about the stove is the fact that the firebox is only about 12" tall due to a heat shield that helps restrict flames from reaching the cat. I would like the stove more if I could pile on the wood and not have to worry about it for 16+ hours, but still easily getting burn times of 10-12 hours by just throwing 3 big logs on a good coal bed.

 

[mellow]

Congrats on getting a 91, as you are finding out it is a great heater.

Are you going to convert the 91 to a freestanding stove down the road?

 

[weatherguy]

Welp I bought a Buck Stove Model 91 about a month ago and have been very impressed so far. It's well engineered stove that kicks out a lot of heat with little wood. It's a 5 year old stove with a new cat and picked it up in WV, about a 5 hour drive one way, but worth the trip to me. I can't believe how long I can go between reloading when I use large logs. The only thing I dont' like about the stove is the fact that the firebox is only about 12" tall due to a heat shield that helps restrict flames from reaching the cat. I would like the stove more if I could pile on the wood and not have to worry about it for 16+ hours, but still easily getting burn times of 10-12 hours by just throwing 3 big logs on a good coal bed.

Nothing wrong with 10-12 hour burns, you could probably do a bit better with some black locust or other such high BTU woods.

 

[WranglerBowman]

I already converted it to freestanding, just to get that much more heat out of it. I've really been please with it so far. The only thing I really wish it had was a way to control the air flow when your not home. When I only have time to throw 3 logs on every 12 hours I start to get a significant build up of coals. Normally I come home, stir up the coals and stack into a pile near the front of the stove and open the regular air intake wide open to try and get the cat back up to temperature and burn off some of the excess coals. Then I add three logs on right before bed and repeat in the morning. If there was a way to make the air intake adjustable so it kept a consistent temperature it would be even better. Guess I'm a hard wood burner to please. I have a couple black locust rounds, wheel borrow full, that are 2 years old. I'll try burning those and timing them to see how long they last.

 

[mellow]

If you want the adjustable air intake you will either need to install Smartstove (http://inveninc.com/products.htm ) or install a Blaze King.

 

[WranglerBowman]

I've never heard of Smart Stove but def something I'd like to look into. I don't see any prices listed, which normally means it's pretty expensive. Had work a 10 hour day yesterday and with an hour and a half commute one way I was gone from the stove for 13 hours. Still came home to a nice hot bed of coals and the fan going...love it. Just threw a couple logs on and was good to go for the night. Fires been going to 2 weeks straight right now.

 

[granpajohn]

^^^ I should point out (for the benefit of other readers) that we have had a very early winter here in the South. Temps have been running about 10-15 degrees below normal...went 6 days without seeing the sun last week. Even a touch of snow in the forecast for today.

 

[mellow]

Yea, I normally do not start burning till towards the end of this month but not this year. The nice thing is I have a new insert so I have been happy having the chance to play with it.