Heating the far rooms

[beermann]

Let us know what you ultimately choose for your application and maybe include pictures, etc., if it seems appropriate. What you are trying to accomplish is a common HVAC engineering scenario. It is seen a lot in quarantine rooms in hospitals or clean rooms (white rooms) in various industries. It is about changing the relative pressure differential between spaces.

This plan if flexing and changing as I go and read posts here and on other threads. It's changed as I experiment on what works in my house. I'll first describe what I've tried and then I'll tell you what I'll be doing.

What I tried:
1) I tried blowing cold air out of his room and and down the hall towards the stove room with floor fans. This did little to nothing by bringing the temperature up almost 1° over an hour. It was also not practical in our busy house. I tried a combo of fans (one hallway one in his room). And also tried a single fan.

2) the bathroom is at the end of the hall beside his room so I tried using the bathroom exhaust fan and noticed the hallway did warm up slightly by pretty much the same as running the floor fans.

3) I tried running the central air fan and it only made everywhere colder.

What I am currently doing:
I put a small fan on the floor by the halfwall/doorway that leads into the hallway. since the half wall/doorway is where the heat is getting trapped i Angled the fan towards the ceiling so that the air from the floor fan mixes with the hot air trapped between the doorway and the hallway. This floor fan also intersects with the blower of the insert so that mixes as well This alone has dramatically increased the heat transfer into the hallway from 18° to 23°

In the stove room I've been keeping the ceiling fan circulating upwards on medium to high depending on the burn. His room has warmed up from 15° to 19°

What I learned and what my plan is:
In this ranch home it is better to push hot air from the ceiling towards the far rooms and let natural air circulation take place. I think this is because there is only a halfwall/doorway in the way of a straight line from the insert blower fan and the hallway.

I will be using a low profile register/fan combo near the ceiling to move air from the stove room and into the hallway... I will then move air from the hallway and into his room with a short 2 foot flex pipe and a small silent fan.

Natural air circulation should fill his room with warm air and force the cold air out and towards the stove room.

I can could also keep the bathroom fan on to draw air down the hallway.

Let me know your thoughts and ideas for products.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

This plan if flexing and changing as I go and read posts here and on other threads. It's changed as I experiment on what works in my house. I'll first describe what I've tried and then I'll tell you what I'll be doing.

What I tried:
1) I tried blowing cold air out of his room and and down the hall towards the stove room with floor fans. This did little to nothing by bringing the temperature up almost 1° over an hour. It was also not practical in our busy house. I tried a combo of fans (one hallway one in his room). And also tried a single fan.

2) the bathroom is at the end of the hall beside his room so I tried using the bathroom exhaust fan and noticed the hallway did warm up slightly by pretty much the same as running the floor fans.

3) I tried running the central air fan and it only made everywhere colder.

What I am currently doing:
I put a small fan on the floor by the halfwall/doorway that leads into the hallway. since the half wall/doorway is where the heat is getting trapped i Angled the fan towards the ceiling so that the air from the floor fan mixes with the hot air trapped between the doorway and the hallway. This floor fan also intersects with the blower of the insert so that mixes as well This alone has dramatically increased the heat transfer into the hallway from 18° to 23°

In the stove room I've been keeping the ceiling fan circulating upwards on medium to high depending on the burn. His room has warmed up from 15° to 19°

What I learned and what my plan is:
In this ranch home it is better to push hot air from the ceiling towards the far rooms and let natural air circulation take place. I think this is because there is only a halfwall/doorway in the way of a straight line from the insert blower fan and the hallway.

I will be using a low profile register/fan combo near the ceiling to move air from the stove room and into the hallway... I will then move air from the hallway and into his room with a short 2 foot flex pipe and a small silent fan.

Natural air circulation should fill his room with warm air and force the cold air out and towards the stove room.

I can could also keep the bathroom fan on to draw air down the hallway.

Let me know your thoughts and ideas for products.

You sure are working on making happen. Good for you! I think the biggest challenge is that the two spaces are not adjacent. I would be curious to see a drawing of the spaces with some dimensions.

I live in a raised ranch. My major mechanicals and workshop are in the basement. This space is currently unheated but stays fairly comfortable due to a good amount of insulation and the residual radiant heat from the gas furnace (when it runs). I do have a wood burning add-on furnace that I plan to install in the spring, which will mostly provide direct heat to the workshop.

Where our situations are more similar is in the upstairs. My wood stove is located in my living room and is designed for space heating like yours. My living room, dining room and kitchen share a large open space, so the stove heats this entire three room area which is about half my house. My bedrooms and bathroom do not get direct wood heat.

Initially, I thought I would try to bring some of the wood stove heat to the bedrooms. But it is a difficult task to do well with house fans, especially when the heated room is not adjacent to the cold room. And as you mentioned, the fans get in the way. I have considered installing thru wall fans but have resisted because I plan to add additional insulation to my walls in the spring. I think with the extra insulation my need for additional heat in the bedrooms will diminish. And my attic is air sealed with 2" of closed cell two part spray foam and then 16" of cellulose blown over the top, so I think I'm good there.

I recommend taking a careful look at how much insulation you have in your walls and ceiling, as well as, air sealing. You might make some fairly large gains with some improvements on this front. Also, maybe a couple of thru wall fans about a foot below the ceiling would help encourage convection.

 

[beermann]

You sure are working on making happen. Good for you! I think the biggest challenge is that the two spaces are not adjacent. I would be curious to see a drawing of the spaces with some dimensions.

I live in a raised ranch. My major mechanicals and workshop are in the basement. This space is currently unheated but stays fairly comfortable due to a good amount of insulation and the residual radiant heat from the gas furnace (when it runs). I do have a wood burning add-on furnace that I plan to install in the spring, which will mostly provide direct heat to the workshop.

Where our situations are more similar is in the upstairs. My wood stove is located in my living room and is designed for space heating like yours. My living room, dining room and kitchen share a large open space, so the stove heats this entire three room area which is about half my house. My bedrooms and bathroom do not get direct wood heat.

Initially, I thought I would try to bring some of the wood stove heat to the bedrooms. But it is a difficult task to do well with house fans, especially when the heated room is not adjacent to the cold room. And as you mentioned, the fans get in the way. I have considered installing thru wall fans but have resisted because I plan to add additional insulation to my walls in the spring. I think with the extra insulation my need for additional heat in the bedrooms will diminish. And my attic is air sealed with 2" of closed cell two part spray foam and then 16" of cellulose blown over the top, so I think I'm good there.

I recommend taking a careful look at how much insulation you have in your walls and ceiling, as well as, air sealing. You might make some fairly large gains with some improvements on this front. Also, maybe a couple of thru wall fans about a foot below the ceiling would help encourage convection.

Pm me your email and I'll send a 30 second video of the living space and hallway so you can get an idea. sounds like we are having the same challenge and our houses sound very similar with some minor differences.

The one room is poorly insulated and I can definitely go the route of adding some additional insulation in the attic. If it is a busy winter I will he able to afford it in the summer time.

I think a register is the way to go for between the living room and hallway. I'll show you the set up for the bedroom air supply with photos if I get your email. It's just easier than explaining and drawing.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

Pm me your email and I'll send a 30 second video of the living space and hallway so you can get an idea. sounds like we are having the same challenge and our houses sound very similar with some minor differences.

The one room is poorly insulated and I can definitely go the route of adding some additional insulation in the attic. If it is a busy winter I will he able to afford it in the summer time.

I think a register is the way to go for between the living room and hallway. I'll show you the set up for the bedroom air supply with photos if I get your email. It's just easier than explaining and drawing.

PM done.

About nine years ago, I redid the insulation and air sealing in the attic. The original insulation was fiberglass batts laid on the attic floor and poorly fit. We were loosing a lot of air to the attic and therefore heat. Just air sealing the attic caused the furnace to go from running once per hour overnight to not running even once. After I blew in the cellulose insulation over the top the heating and cooling improved even more and the house got a lot quieter.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I would definitely go with upgrading the insulation before adding additional heating capacity. You may find you dont need any additional heat after all. Iv been in the home remodeling and rehabbing business for 30+ years . Its all about insulation and air sealing. Its amazing how little heat is needed in a tight well insulated home. One of the last houses i did required just 800,000 BTUs of gas for 28 days in january to keep it at 62 (was empty) The equivalent of about 7 gallons of oil or $15. Im doing one over now and the coldest room is a new addition that was done with fiberglass. I use all blown in cellulose.

 

[beermann]

I would definitely go with upgrading the insulation before adding additional heating capacity. You may find you dont need any additional heat after all. Iv been in the home remodeling and rehabbing business for 30+ years . Its all about insulation and air sealing. Its amazing how little heat is needed in a tight well insulated home. One of the last houses i did required just 800,000 BTUs of gas for 28 days in january to keep it at 62 (was empty) The equivalent of about 7 gallons of oil or $15. Im doing one over now and the coldest room is a new addition that was done with fiberglass. I use all blown in cellulose.

I do know his room was done with fibreglass insulation. I am going the route of air tranfer because I have what I need at no cost other than a couple register covers and a fan. Ideally this coming year i will be able to do the insutation and I would definitly like your opinion when the time comes as I know very little but I am very handy.

If it makes a difference I live in ontario canada. gets about -20 to -30 on average.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I do know his room was done with fibreglass insulation. I am going the route of air tranfer because I have what I need at no cost other than a couple register covers and a fan. Ideally this coming year i will be able to do the insutation and I would definitly like your opinion when the time comes as I know very little but I am very handy.
If it makes a difference I live in ontario canada. gets about -20 to -30 on average.

With those kind of temps insulation and air sealing are even more important. Yea i know what you mean about a quick fix ,redoing the homes insulation is not easy or cheap or fast. Like your handle (beerman)

 

[Charles1981]

I have a walkout ranch in Michigan. The stove is in the basement and we have a spiral staircase down to the stove room so its a perfect column to move air down into the basement and get it to rise upstairs (two floor registers directly above stove to top floor). You put a paper towel over the register and it will fly upwards with a good gusto.

That being said the entire basement easily stays at 80-85. The upstairs stays a constant 69-73 as the stove cycles. The two far upstairs rooms however at the far end of the house stay at 65 or so with the doors open. You can get em slightly warmer with a fans in the rooms blowing out down the hallway, but it still isn't very effective.

The good thing about our house (bad in some ways as well) is it is 100% electric (Cook Stove, Water Heater, Electric Baseboard Heaters). There is zero HVAC and no propane. Its a wonderfully hypoallergenic house its also very small (1000sq feet upstairs and another 1000sq feet in the basement).

You will be surprised at how well those electric baseboard heaters work. Each upstairs room has one of my kids in them and the doors are closed at night so the temperatures will drop fast with the doors closed. One room has a 3 foot baseboard heater under the window and the larger room with a sliding door in it has two 3 feet baseboard heaters on either side of the sliding door. It takes maybe 5-10 minutes to heat the rooms up and they don't cycle all that much. It is something to look into is having electric baseboard heaters installed....

The down side is that every room has electric baseboard heat and if we leave for a few days to visit family or go out of town it can be a bit expensive to heat the house exclusively with electric. But the risk of freezing pipes is no different then if there was a gas/oil furnace as if the power goes out and you aren't home...good luck. And if we are home? The wood stove is going.

Just an idea. We really have come to love electric baseboard heaters.

 

[beermann]

I have a walkout ranch in Michigan. The stove is in the basement and we have a spiral staircase down to the stove room so its a perfect column to move air down into the basement and get it to rise upstairs (two floor registers directly above stove to top floor). You put a paper towel over the register and it will fly upwards with a good gusto.

That being said the entire basement easily stays at 80-85. The upstairs stays a constant 69-73 as the stove cycles. The two far upstairs rooms however at the far end of the house stay at 65 or so with the doors open. You can get em slightly warmer with a fans in the rooms blowing out down the hallway, but it still isn't very effective.

The good thing about our house (bad in some ways as well) is it is 100% electric (Cook Stove, Water Heater, Electric Baseboard Heaters). There is zero HVAC and no propane. Its a wonderfully hypoallergenic house its also very small (1000sq feet upstairs and another 1000sq feet in the basement).

You will be surprised at how well those electric baseboard heaters work. Each upstairs room has one of my kids in them and the doors are closed at night so the temperatures will drop fast with the doors closed. One room has a 3 foot baseboard heater under the window and the larger room with a sliding door in it has two 3 feet baseboard heaters on either side of the sliding door. It takes maybe 5-10 minutes to heat the rooms up and they don't cycle all that much. It is something to look into is having electric baseboard heaters installed....

The down side is that every room has electric baseboard heat and if we leave for a few days to visit family or go out of town it can be a bit expensive to heat the house exclusively with electric. But the risk of freezing pipes is no different then if there was a gas/oil furnace as if the power goes out and you aren't home...good luck. And if we are home? The wood stove is going.

Just an idea. We really have come to love electric baseboard heaters.

This is on the agenda after I get some airflow circulation farther down the hall

 

[beermann]

So ive been using a small fan in the doorway now for a week. It blows the hot air trapped in the living room down that hall and it has dramatically increased hallway temperatures. It regularly goes up by 3.5°Celsius in as little as 10minutes (19 up to 22.5 in 10 minutes) if it stays on the heat balances out to what the living room temp is. this seals the deal on upgrading to an in wall fan register to blow air down the hallway and then rigging something up to blow that warm air into the room.

On a side note. I've saved $30 on my heating bill during my first month of using the insert. Happy with that.

 

[Sodbuster]

They came through our road with NG last year, so I'm a little more forgiving if the heat kicks on; our home is not laid out well for wood heat. The stove is in the great room with a cathedral ceiling, and when it's really cold the furthermost parts of the house get cold, (obviously). I wired in a piggy back thermostat in our bedroom that will kick on at 62 all the time. Wife gets up early for work, so it is programed to kick on at 4AM and run to 68 deg. This way, the furnace runs once in a while on the coldest days, and really gives the stove a chance to catch up. I have a PE Summit Classic, and running it hard will maintain temp, but has a hard time gaining ground it's lost.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

NG is great if you dont mind paying 3 to 5 times the price of the gas for the service. Around here the gas Co. has a license to steal.

 

[Sodbuster]

NG is great if you dont mind paying 3 to 5 times the price of the gas for the service. Around here the gas Co. has a license to steal.

I agree, but in my case it did a couple things, it instantly increased my property value,(not that I"m looking to sell) many people won't even look at a house that's on the pig. I also don't have to lay out $1500 each fall for a pre-buy to protect myself from shortages and price spikes. A few years ago LP went from 1.19 in the fall to $5 in January due to some BS excuse. You are right about the price of the service, but it here it is minimal. My bills in the summer are $30, and of that about $9 is gas.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

A few years ago LP went from 1.19 in the fall to $5 in January due to some BS excuse. You are right about the price of the service, but it here it is minimal. My bills in the summer are $30, and of that about $9 is gas.

So more than 3 times the price of the gas.
One of my recent bills for a rental was Almost $70 for $15 worth of gas. When the price of NG plunged the Gas co got the PUC to let them raise all their added charges to make up the difference. Since gas and oil are almost the same price (per BTU)now adding in the Gas companys surcharges ,heating oil would have to be over $10 a gallon to be equal. At least in this area. $70 for about a million BTUs is also more than twice what electric resistance is which usually is the highest cost per BTU. The equation changes somewhat when you use a lot of gas but still 3 times.

 

[Sodbuster]

So more than 3 times the price of the gas.
One of my recent bills for a rental was Almost $70 for $15 worth of gas. When the price of NG plunged the Gas co got the PUC to let them raise all their added charges to make up the difference. Since gas and oil are almost the same price (per BTU)now adding in the Gas companys surcharges ,heating oil would have to be over $10 a gallon to be equal. At least in this area. $70 for about a million BTUs is also more than twice what electric resistance is which usually is the highest cost per BTU. The equation changes somewhat when you use a lot of gas but still 3 times.

It does change as the usage goes up, because one of the charges is the same on every bill. All utilities suck, you'll notice I still burn wood, all the time, but a $50 or $60 dollar gas bill isn't going send me off the deep end. Many people spend that much on a meal out and don't even blink an eye. I guess the thing I hated the most was having to watch the tank, and having to pre-buy to keep from getting reamed.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

So ive been using a small fan in the doorway now for a week. It blows the hot air trapped in the living room down that hall and it has dramatically increased hallway temperatures. It regularly goes up by 3.5°Celsius in as little as 10minutes (19 up to 22.5 in 10 minutes) if it stays on the heat balances out to what the living room temp is. this seals the deal on upgrading to an in wall fan register to blow air down the hallway and then rigging something up to blow that warm air into the room.

On a side note. I've saved $30 on my heating bill during my first month of using the insert. Happy with that.

I see that this is progressing slowly. It took you 15 days to figure out somehing that I mentioned to you on the 12th. Moving the cold air is not the solution, but moving the warm air will be.
Now all you need to do is install a vent in the warm rooms ceiling run flex duct through the attic with a duct booster fan to draw all the warm air in and put a vent in the cold rooms ceiling and blow the warm air in the cold room and you will have solved your problem
By doing this you will have no fans in the hall. No noise and you won't have to worry about how to get the warm air from the hall into the room
Do a little research.. Its really this easy. The problem your having isnt this difficult to solve.

 

[beermann]

I see that this is progressing slowly. It took you 15 days to figure out somehing that I mentioned to you on the 12th. Moving the cold air is not the solution, but moving the warm air will be.
Now all you need to do is install a vent in the warm rooms ceiling run flex duct through the attic with a duct booster fan to draw all the warm air in and put a vent in the cold rooms ceiling and blow the warm air in the cold room and you will have solved your problem
By doing this you will have no fans in the hall. No noise and you won't have to worry about how to get the warm air from the hall into the room
Do a little research.. Its really this easy. The problem your having isnt this difficult to solve.

Thanks tips but your idea won't work for my house. Sorry if you don't understand why...but I'm sure smart guy like you will figure out why eventually

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Thanks tips but your idea won't work for my house. Sorry if you don't understand why...but I'm sure smart guy like you will figure out why eventually

Yes took me all of 5 seconds.. You live in a ranch with no attic.. there is one in the next town over, I drive by it every so often. I am completely understanding. As i have no experience in living in such and area or dwelling I would not be any help in this matter. My living conditions are much different.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

As a temporary experiement I'm thinking on taking a duct fan and attaching it to the floor vent. it will be attached so that the fan direction will pull air from inside the room and push it into the basement. This way warm air from the hallway will gradually flow into the room. If pumping air into the basement works to heat the room by just a few degrees I can then entertain installing a separate duct line to bring that air directly into the room with the fireplace.

Has anyone tried this?

I've done something along those lines, and it has been a smashing success. I wish I had done it years ago, but I listened to the experts who said it wouldn't work. I finally decided to ignore them. Here is my write-up on it.

*edit: I am trying to avoid placing fans on the floor or on doorways. With our family they would just get in the way. Im trying to use discreet methods like floor vents for this project.

I did fans on the floor for a few years, and it did help, but as you mention, it's a pain. Always in the way, and noisy. I used a doorway fan for the master bedroom. It did help, but again, it was too noisy, and then you can't close the door, either.

Also, quoted from my write-up:

For years, I had a 10" fan mounted in the corner of the doorway leading into the corridor, blowing warm air down towards the living room. I used aluminum flashing to build a sort of duct on the suction side of the fan to get air from near the ceiling, so I'd be blowing the hottest air.

This did make a noticeable difference. There was no question it was helping. It was noisy, though, and not doing enough.