Help a Newbie with an EPA insert

[Bray]

I am no stranger to the world of wood cutting and wood stoves. I grew up with and ugly fire breathing Ashley. However, when it comes to an insert (especially the new EPA wood burning inserts) I am a newbie. My wife and I purchased a new 2400 sq ft home with a large fireplace. The first thing I thought of would be how great it would be to have an insert in there. The first thing she thought was how pretty the fireplace was. After our first electric bill (heat pump) she agreed on an insert provided it was "pretty" and had a big fire veiwing area to watch the fire. I have talked with various local dealers who have completely ignored what we were looking for and were more interested in pushing their inventory. I have read this forum, searched the pages, and absorbed a lot of knowledge. I have started narrowing the list of potential prospects. We are looking at the Lopi Declaration and freedom bay, the Jotul Rockland, the Osburn 2200, and the Napoleon 1402. I like the Osburn the best but haven't seen much about them on here and don't have a dealer locally. Have any of you bought online and had it shipped? My wife really likes the look of the enamel Napoleon. Any of you have any reccomendations for an insert? I know a blower will be a must since the ceilings in our main living area are catherdral and peak at 16ft. I have attached a picture of the houseplan. As you can see it is very open and would be perfect for a wood burner. Any help or advice is appreciated.

 

['bert]

If you want to maintain the look of the original FP, you should consider some the the completely built in stoves. Security Chimney BIS, Lennox (same brand really as Lennox purchased SC a few years back). Here is a Link..

http://www.securitychimneys.com/pages/fireplace/cat_high.asp?country=ca

 

[kylecarmen]

My wife and I were in the same situation back in the spring. She only wanted a flush insert, so we looked at the Lopi Declaration, VC Montpelier, and the Jotul Rockland. We were unimpressed with our local Vermont Castings dealer, so we didn't go back to them. The Jotul has really nice cast panel surrounds, but we ended up designing an install where we recessed the insert about half an inch (its a long story) and we needed to cut the surround panels down to size. We chose the Lopi (it was our favorite for looks anyway), and it allowed us to cut the trim to our liking. We have been very happy with the decision. Although we aren't trying to heat the whole house, just our main living spaces (living room, dining room, and kitchen), it has been great. Last night it was -22 degrees, the furnace never came on and the whole house was about 64 degrees. The living room was a very comfy 68.
-Kyle

 

[Bray]

If you want to maintain the look of the original FP, you should consider some the the completely built in stoves. Security Chimney BIS, Lennox (same brand really as Lennox purchased SC a few years back). Here is a Link..

http://www.securitychimneys.com/pages/fireplace/cat_high.asp?country=ca

Is install the same as other inserts? Or do these have to be built in?

 

[bshatto]

Welcome to the forum Bray.

I only have experience with the Lopi Freedom Bay, which is on your list. I installed it early this year and got a few burns out of it before Spring. My wife too was partial to something "pretty" and preferred the Freedom Bay. I really didn't care as long as it was quality made, put out enough heat and easy to use. I had only used a fireplace previous and I'm pleased with the ease of starting and keeping a fire going in the insert. The first burn I was cautious and just threw in a few small splits but the next time I loaded her up. It burned so hot I had to open the doors and windows. I've since learned how to control the heat with the amount of wood and the air control. I do have a couple of complaints but I'm not sure these aren't common to all inserts. The fan is quite loud when running full blast and the glass gets coated with soot after a slow overnight burn. Overall I'm quite happy and I hoping to see a lower electric bill.

 

[jcjohnston]

I have this same stove though painted brown, last year was the first year and we love it. Blower on high is noisy but we typically back it down to just under the TV volume and then forget about it. All night burns with just s slight push in of the bottom lever keep the glass clean and burn 8 hours with ease, longer if packed right and low on ash build up to get more wood in. Enamel is certainly prettier I must admit, but will get pics of the brown up.

 

[jfournier]

How do the square footage ratings on these stoves usually stack up to actual? I bought a VC Montpelier which was rated for 1500 square feet and it struggles with my 1300 sq. feet. Is the rating for the max BTU output or is it based on realistically heating a home?

 

[Hurricane]

Your floor plan and size is very close to mine. I have a Quadrfire 5100I insert and it heats the whole house well. My cathedral ceiling is in the family room which is where the master bedroom is in your plan and that room is very comfortable as well. A fan is a must to heat that much space and they are noisy when on high.
A few questions that you need to take into consideration.
Is your fireplace a masonry fireplace or a zero clearance fireplace. The reason that is important is some of these larger inserts are not rated to be installed in anything other than a masonry fireplace. If it is a zero clearance you will be limited to smaller inserts. I ask because I have not seen many real masonry fireplaces built in the corner of a room.

Most people on here are happy with their choice of insert because the quality and designs are much better that the old smoke dragon stoves. It comes down to little differences and looks that set them apart.

How do the square footage ratings on these stoves usually stack up to actual? I bought a VC Montpelier which was rated for 1500 square feet and it struggles with my 1300 sq. feet. Is the rating for the max BTU output or is it based on realistically heating a home?

The rating cannot be actual because it cannot factor in wood quality, floor plan, house insulation, drafts, windows etc. The rating is likely for a well insulated home with a very open floor plan.

 

[Bray]

Your floor plan and size is very close to mine. I have a Quadrfire 5100I insert and it heats the whole house well. My cathedral ceiling is in the family room which is where the master bedroom is in your plan and that room is very comfortable as well. A fan is a must to heat that much space and they are noisy when on high.
A few questions that you need to take into consideration.
Is your fireplace a masonry fireplace or a zero clearance fireplace. The reason that is important is some of these larger inserts are not rated to be installed in anything other than a masonry fireplace. If it is a zero clearance you will be limited to smaller inserts. I ask because I have not seen many real masonry fireplaces built in the corner of a room.

Most people on here are happy with their choice of insert because the quality and designs are much better that the old smoke dragon stoves. It comes down to little differences and looks that set them apart.

How do the square footage ratings on these stoves usually stack up to actual? I bought a VC Montpelier which was rated for 1500 square feet and it struggles with my 1300 sq. feet. Is the rating for the max BTU output or is it based on realistically heating a home?

The rating cannot be actual because it cannot factor in wood quality, floor plan, house insulation, drafts, windows etc. The rating is likely for a well insulated home with a very open floor plan.

The fire place is a bricked behemoth. It is fairley large and if I could post a pic from my phone I would. It could handle the largest of inserts. We have fans in the living room and family rooms. I don't expect to fully heat the house. I would just like to heat the main living area. There is nothing like walking into a warm wood heated house on a cold day.

 

['bert]

As for actual vs what the manufacture states for heat sq ft. I would say mine was very close. I have a BIS Ultra, manufacture claims that it is suitable for 2000 sqft. I have a bungalow style home that is just under 2200 sq ft, new construction (5 years) and i would say very well insulated. It will heat our home well enough that there is no desire to turn the nat gas furnace on. During the day we keep doors closed to the bedrooms so they do cool down, but when the boys get home from school they open them and their rooms are warm by bedtime.

To answer your other question, yes the BIS type of stoves are meant to be "built in", thus the name, BIS (Built In Stove). There have been a few people here that have set theirs in a corner and built around it, looked fantastic! Mine on the other hand was designed into my house and sits flush with an outside wall so that it does not take up any room space in the great room.

Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you want any more detail.

 

[Bray]

I think we have decided to go with an enamel insert. The hampton is very sharp. We are also looking at the jotul and the hearthstone. Am I missing any other enamel ones?

 

[Deron]

If you're price conscious, I just had the Napoleon 1402 installed today, it looks great and I
got mine real cheap.

I researched models vs. value for weeks and I opted for the Nap 1402. It was a tossup until
I found it on HomeClick's site on sale. Others I was considering were Pacific Energy, Lopi,
Buck and QuadFire...none of them (all from dealers) could touch the Napoleon price from
HomeClick - the installer who put it in said that is at or below cost and frankly said dealers,
especially this time of year are looking to make handsome profits on markup.

After it was said and done I paid $1578 and had free freight delivery...this is far and away
the best value. I would have rather had a little larger firebox, but I couldn't turn down that
price.

I'd check out HomeClick's website and see what the price is, I'd also try calling to try and get
a price match for what I paid for it.

Good luck with whatever you decide on.

 

[Deron]

Hey Bray -- I just noticed you're also from KY, not sure if you knew this but the 1402 Napoleon stove is manufactured in Crittenden, KY.
Nice to be able to patronize a Kentucky manufacturer and USA product instead of chinese for a change, it further sealed the deal for me.

GO CATS

 

[MARK KERWOOD]

I am no stranger to the world of wood cutting and wood stoves. I grew up with and ugly fire breathing Ashley. However, when it comes to an insert (especially the new EPA wood burning inserts) I am a newbie. My wife and I purchased a new 2400 sq ft home with a large fireplace. The first thing I thought of would be how great it would be to have an insert in there. The first thing she thought was how pretty the fireplace was. After our first electric bill (heat pump) she agreed on an insert provided it was "pretty" and had a big fire veiwing area to watch the fire. I have talked with various local dealers who have completely ignored what we were looking for and were more interested in pushing their inventory. I have read this forum, searched the pages, and absorbed a lot of knowledge. I have started narrowing the list of potential prospects. We are looking at the Lopi Declaration and freedom bay, the Jotul Rockland, the Osburn 2200, and the Napoleon 1402. I like the Osburn the best but haven't seen much about them on here and don't have a dealer locally. Have any of you bought online and had it shipped? My wife really likes the look of the enamel Napoleon. Any of you have any reccomendations for an insert? I know a blower will be a must since the ceilings in our main living area are catherdral and peak at 16ft. I have attached a picture of the houseplan. As you can see it is very open and would be perfect for a wood burner. Any help or advice is appreciated.

napoleon beats competion hands down!
1. i've installed all of these........not happy with the jotul was hard to piece together
2.napoleon has the best secondary air design in the industry and ceramic baffles which is a major plus ( most companys use firebrick for baffles which can break even on shipping
3.napoleon has best warranty when you read the fine print

 

[begreen]

Old thread and a matter of opinion. Some folks like a more durable baffle. Some like stainless enclosed baffles even better. :coolsmirk:

 

[Joey]

Lots of good stuff here. I like my Napoleon also. I had a local dealer and spoke to them at length about many of the different stoves that he had available. I liked the 1402 because it sat well out onto the hearth and gave the room that extra radiant heat. Its two blowers really move the heat around and are quite quiet. The surround is kinda cheap in my opinion. Definately happy with the way it burns. The firebox is a good size,,,but I would like it to be even bigger. I always try to by my stuff locally if I can, its great when ya have a problem and the dealer can send someone out to fix the problem or answer your questions. I just have to figure out how to move the air around a little better,,,,,,I have tried a few things..and will tweek it this fall. Lots of great steel stoves out there to choose from,,,ya cant go wrong with the tax incentive. Happy Burning.

 

[MARK KERWOOD]

Old thread and a matter of opinion. Some folks like a more durable baffle. Some like stainless enclosed baffles even better. :coolsmirk:

fyi=baffles are not enclosed
baffles with most companies are firebrick, napoleon and a few others use ceramic which is more costly , but more durable

secondary air system on napoleons are welded steel as opposed to rolled steel air tubes on most which just "pop" into place