1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Help me spend Lowes giftcard: ESW 25-EP vs 10-CPM

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by GuitsBoy, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    Hi guys, I have a ton of lowes gift cards I've been saving to put towards a pellet stove (no AM FM, sorry)

    I've narrowed it down to the summers heat rebranded Englander 25-EP or the 10-CPM because they are the newer design, single auger, Full on/off T-stat, and have larger windows. The wifey gives the EP a very slight edge in aesthetics, and of course price. I like the idea of multifuel since it will be a little less picky on pellets, although I don't plan on burning anything but straight wood pellets. We are avid DIYers, have an extensive tool collection, and access to a fully CNC machine shop if need be. Suffice it to say, I don't mind tinkering.

    Stove will be placed on the east (leeward) side of the ground floor of a 2600 sq ft colonial, fairly open floor plan. There is a wood burning fireplace in the den on the windward side. Home is located on Long Island. We put 900+ gallons of oil through an old peerless boiler, with programmable t-stats set to 66/62/66/62. Natural gas is 5 houses away, but they want $40K to trench it to me. Please help me hobble along on pellets and oil at least until my neighbors are ready to upgrade their boilers. The pellet stove will be primarily supplemental heat, although Ill probably run it right through the season to try and cut down oil consumption.

    Can you guys sway me one way or another between the two?

    I appreciate any help, and thanks of course for the hours of previously posted reading material.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. hooter04

    hooter04 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    151
    Loc:
    Upstate NY
    If it was me I'd buy a quad or harman, and use the gift cards for pellet purchase.
    Augmister, jertola and Jack Morrissey like this.
  3. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    I expect Ill be getting a few of these comments.

    While I appreciate the suggestion, those just arent what Im looking for right now. Unfortunately it's just not in the budget right now. I have a lot of house to build and not a lot of money, so unfortunately I have had to renovate an entire house on a shoestring budget. I have the cards, so I wont feel it as much buying from lowes. And from what Ive read, nobody is too pleased with lowes pellets. Ill most likely be buying a ton or two from a local supplier instead.

    And no, I wont be using the cards to buy building materials from lowes for a number of reasons. You cant find a straight board in the bunch.
  4. Bob Sorjanen

    Bob Sorjanen Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    144
    Loc:
    Edgecomb Maine
    I don't think you would go wrong with either of those choices from all the input on this forum. Seems like the people on here that have them have nothing bad to say about them. Those would be my choices when I buy again. Others should chime in on their feelings about them. I will say that customer support is GREAT.
  5. dlehneman

    dlehneman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    105
    Loc:
    Lakes Region, NH
    I think you'll be happy with either. I bought an Englander PAH last year and it's been great. I work it hard and it's my primary heat source in central NH, no problems so far.
  6. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    Thanks guys. Within my constraints, they seemed to be the standouts.

    Is it worth the extra price, heft, size and slightly-less-attractiveness to go with the multifuel CPM?
  7. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    5,608
    Loc:
    madison hgts. va
    just an insider's tip, if the store has to order in either of those models , the CPM will be much longer wait. there are none currently in stock. obviously though if they have one in the store that wouldn't apply but i did get a message across my desk we are currently out of stock on the CPM and will be for a while possibly december (all we have currently in the warehouse are "spoken for" and awaiting shipment)
  8. fmsm

    fmsm Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    531
    Loc:
    South of Boston MA
    I did have a 25epi that is pretty much the same as the free standing. Great customer support, good stove, but be prepared for daily cleaning. With mine if you did not vac out the burnout daily it would be clinker city.
  9. IHATEPROPANE

    IHATEPROPANE Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,331
    Loc:
    NoPellettons, MA
    The EP has a better heat exchanger and will need more attention...cleaning, the CPM has a lesser heat exchanger but will require less attention. Decide which of these is more important and there ya go.

    And the money saved on not buying a Harman can go towards the next three or four years worth of pellets lol.....Harman are nice but not worth the extra cost IMHO, especially if you are a DIYer
    krooser, schoondog and slvrblkk like this.
  10. bill3rail

    bill3rail Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    435
    Loc:
    LI, NY
    Help me spend Lowes giftcard: Give them to me and I will use them up real quick!

    Make her happy! At ANY cost, and you will be happy! To her, the aesthetics are more important than heat until she sees the money savings.

    From January of 2012 to today, I have burned almost three ton of Blowes pellets and have had no problem with them. I tried another expensive brand and did not see any difference. During that same time period, I have used about 330 gallons of fuel oil for hot water only.

    You are making one of the best choices for heat going with a pellet stove. Even if you do have the opportunity for NG after you burn pellets for a while, you may not want to change to NG.

    Where on Lawn Guy Land are you?

    Bill in Hicksville
  11. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    @ Mr. Mike of ESW - Thanks for the tip. Wouldn't lowes have inventory in their regional warehouses? Or do they have you guys drop ship directly to the store? That could strengthen the allure of the EP.

    @ IHATEPROPANE - Great info, thanks. I was looking for exactly that stuff which you don't find in the spec sheet.

    @bill3rail - Thanks as well. That first line is priceless advice. Though youre far from the first to suggest as much, it bears repeating time and time again. I will see how we feel doing the pellet thing for a few years, but when the opportunity arises, I would love to have a nearly zero maintenance heating solution such as NG boiler. Even if we do continue heating with pellets, At least I know the hydronic system is there to click on when we run out of pellets or when we leave for a few days. And again, Id love to do an instant on hot water heater, to cut down on even more oil, but again Im waiting for NG. We have propane for the range, but Im not sure I want to go down that route and then convert when the main finally makes it way down the culdesac. Oh, and we bought in eastern kings park, towards the smithtown border. I like to think of it as one of the last bastions of blue collar america left on the island. :)

    @ everyone else - Thanks for some great info. Leaning towards the EP. I appreciate you all taking the time to post up on a topic that probably seems to come up daily (though i did my share of searching first!).
  12. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    5,608
    Loc:
    madison hgts. va

    the CPM is not generally a stock item. lowes usually does not take that model in their "host orders" to their regional w-houses. now if someone ordered one as a lowes "sos" order then decided they didn't want it the store would keep it and sell it "off the floor" usually thats the only way to find one of those as store stock
  13. krooser

    krooser Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,440
    Loc:
    Waupaca, WI
    The 25EP will be fine… you won't be disappointed with an Englander stove. The one in my shop is humming along nicely and I like it.
    stoveguy2esw likes this.
  14. slvrblkk

    slvrblkk Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,207
    Loc:
    Northampton, PA
    ^ ^ ^ what he said^ ^ ^ ;)
    stoveguy2esw likes this.
  15. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    Awesome. Thank you all for chiming in. Very excited to get started.
  16. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    The 25-EP and vent kit has been ordered. Now I just need to start laying tile for the stove to sit on...
    stoveguy2esw likes this.
  17. dlehneman

    dlehneman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    105
    Loc:
    Lakes Region, NH
    Congrats, I'm sure you'll love it!
  18. John Fortier

    John Fortier Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    221
    Tile behind the stove on walls as well?
  19. becasunshine

    becasunshine Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    418
    Loc:
    Central Va
    A little off topic, but with regards to natural gas vs. pellets: there are a number of web sites that will reference the cost per therm and/or cost per btu of natural gas vs. pellets. The last time I checked, most listed natural gas as slightly more price competitive than pellets. My personal experience varies somewhat. I can shop the pellet market and, if I'm lucky, I can find pellets on sale. Pellets on sale typically come out at a slightly better price point than natural gas.

    We had the pellet stove installed in late summer 2008. At the end of the burn season in spring 2009, I asked our local natural gas provider to recalculate a budget billing amount for us based on the last cold season's gas usage. IIRC, the monthly budget billing amount they gave us was about $100/month. The budget bill amount is typically used for 12 consecutive months. So that's $1200/year for natural gas to heat the house for about 5 months and to heat the water for 12 months. We don't spend that much per year in pellets to heat the house, and the cost to heat water for a two person household is minimal.

    We declined budget billing at that time. Our highest gas bill since then was $70, in the middle of a protracted freeze/snowy spell when daytime temps didn't get above freezing for days on end. IIRC, that cold spell lasted for weeks, unusual for this part of the country.

    We accumulated several years of pellet stove usage vs. heating with the natural gas furnace. I once again asked for a budget billing amount at the end of last burn season. I thought that with several years of pellet stove usage/less natural gas usage history, perhaps our budget billing amount would be reduced. I was surprised to hear that our 12 month budget billing amount would be- wait for it- $100. $100/month shall be the budget billing amount, and the budget billing amount shall be $100.

    We burn about two tons of pellets per year. Even at full price per ton, with a typical amount of supplemental natural gas, we wouldn't come anywhere near $1200/year in natural gas costs.

    My best guess is that the prices per therm/btu of natural gas is an average, and apparently does not include the infrastructure costs associated with gas delivery. ???

    Anyway, yeah, natural gas heat is awesome in terms of warmth and convenience, but so far I think that the pellet stove is saving us some cash.
  20. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    I hadn't planned on it. I thought the clearance was 6" to combustibles. I may do 8 or 9 inches clearance, especially since I have baseboard radiators running along that wall.

    @ Becasunshine - Thanks for the info. Unfortunately the availability of natural gas is uncertain. The main ends 5 houses away, and they only cover the first 100 feet to your point of entry. After that, its $101 per foot the rest of the way, and as you can imagine, that adds up fast.
  21. briansol

    briansol Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,743
    Loc:
    central ct
    The second you pony up and connect, NG prices will soar. Watch. lol

    Pellet is here to stay. there will always be trees and things made of wood, and thus scrap saw dust. It's only growing right now. Even the past 5 years, the number of people burning pellets has probably several-fold increased.

    I'm in a similar boat, i'm 3 houses in a side street... the main drag has ng pipes, my street doesn't. if I had it, i'd run it. but since I don't, i'm not interested. Every day, there's some 'gas leak reported' news story and random houses blowing up like a nuke. I'd rather have some dust in the house and not have the what-if feeling all the time.
    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/2...of-peoria-house-explosion-under-investigation

    I would like gas for cooking though. Maybe a 100 gal tank some day....
  22. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    Gas makes a world of difference if you enjoy cooking. We have two 100 lb tanks for the cooktop (electric oven) and outdoor BBQ. We go through about 35 gallons a year. Even at 6 bucks a gallon for LP (non heating prices) its well worth it.
  23. briansol

    briansol Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,743
    Loc:
    central ct
    Yup, i'm an amateur chef (well, I think so) and cooking on electric sucks. It's just a lot of work and time and money to convert and get appliances for at the end of the day doesn't make a whole lot of difference to life.

    Maybe in my next house...
  24. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    Picked up the EP25 Sunday night. Its just sitting in my hallway for the time being, but it looks great. I've been pretty busy doing some electric work and decking in my attic and installing additional insulation. I haven't even started pulling the carpet up from the living room where the stove will go. I have family coming down for thanksgiving, so that's my target installation date.
  25. GuitsBoy

    GuitsBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Loc:
    Lawn Guyland
    Got the pellet stove installed over the weekend ahead of schedule, this way I have have the place nice and warm for when my family arrives for Thanksgiving break. Unfortunately with less than 24 hours burn time, I've joined the auger squeak club. It was horrible, incessant, and I couldn't get to sleep. I finally hit my breaking point and got up at 1 am and spent an hour and a half shutting the stove down, emptying the hopper, fiddling with the auger, and finally shaving pencil lead down to lube the auger with graphite. Against all odds, the pencil graphite actually worked, and it was squeak free until morning, when it finally started whining again.

    I've read different resolutions; some people just use graphite, some realign the auger, others simply wait for the auger to wear in, and someone even filed the auger down to prevent binding. Any suggestions on what method to try first? Any suggestions would be very helpful.

    Anyway, Heres the stove:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

Share This Page