Help with my splitter

[48rob]

Hi,

Please help me understand a few things, and answer a few questions.

When talking about cycle time, is it from the fully retracted position, to fully extended, to fully retracted, or, is it from a couple inches before the log, until the log splits, and then back?

I got ahold of an old 3 point log splitter.
It has a cylinder that is about 30" long.
The cylinder outside diameter is 3.25" and the shiny cylinder that moves in and out is 2" in diameter.

The tractor I have it hooked to is a 33hp diesel, with a flow rate of 7.6 gallons per minute @ 2100psi.

I experimented a bit this afternoon, and here are the results;

First, it is 10 degrees outside, took awhile to get the tractor started, but now inside the shed.
I'm splitting 16" long Cherry, about 10" in diameter.
If I start the ram a couple inches from the log, push until it splits, then return the ram to the same position, it takes 10 seconds.
The log splits sufficiently about half way in, so total travel is about 12 inches in, 12 inches back.

I tried running the ram at idle, half speed, and full throttle, the ram speed stays constant.
Should it? Could it be because the fluid is thick from the cold?
Will the speed be better or worse in warmer weather?

The ram moves forward at one speed, but when retracted, it moves faster?
Why...
I tried switching the hoses and the control lever on the tractor, but that only changes the direction the splitter lever must be pushed/pulled to operate the ram.

I've read quite a lot about three point splitters being very slow because of the flow rate on the tractor, and understand that, but if I can make this one work slightly faster, I'll be set.
I'm hoping to put a 4 way head on it, which will improve speed enough to not buy a $1500 splitter.
Again, most of my rounds are in the 8"-12" range, a 4 way split would be a 1 way trip through the splitter!
At 1 split per 15 seconds = 1440 splits per day equaling 1.5 pieces of wood = 2160 pieces (accounting for 15 minutes rest every hour) and a cord being a (very) rough 600 pieces, we should be able to split 3.6 cords. "If" a 4 way head would work, I could up that number...

Am I off a bit? (don't laugh too hard...I'm new...)

I don't need a splitter that can split 4 cords an hour, just fast enough that I or one of my guys can be as efficient as possible (not have to wait on the ram).
We need to be able to split at least 4 cords a day (1 man)

I only have $200.00 in this thing...so I can easily sell it to someone not needing great speed to recover my money.


Rob

 

[smokinj]

Everthing sounds normal to me. Cycle time is a complete cycle all the way in to all the way out and back. Fuild is going to slow you down until it warms up good. Your short stroking it thats what most do so cycle time not really a big deal. Sound like you got a good deal on it. 4 cords a day one guy can swing that if thrown in a pile.


One person 1-1/2 per cord would be a good strong guy or gal putting 4 together in a day, And eating like a horse in this weather.....

 

[triptester]

Cycle time is the time it takes to go from fully retracted to fully extended and back to fully retracted with no load. The ram retracts faster because the ram deceases them volume of the return side of the cylinder. Rpms will vary the output of the pump but with a small pump and the generally low rpms of a diesel the difference may not be that noticeable.

Attached is a site that has calculators for speed and tonnage.

http://www.baumhydraulics.com/pages.php?pageid=4

 

[48rob]

Thanks for the info!

Nice calculator!

It says with current setup, I have a 5 ton splitter.
If I had double the 2100psi, it would be a 10 ton splitter.

Anyone know how much force is required to run a 4 way head?
Also, how much does sharpness of the wege factor in ability to split?
The wedge on this splitter isn't great, and it is fairly wide, as in wedge angle from blade edge to the back of the wedge.

I keep having thoughts of hooking this thing to our backhoe, using either the curl cylinder for the ram, or just adding some quick disconnects for better pressure/speed...

I'll try to get some pictures today.

Rob

 

[SolarAndWood]

I have a similar splitter with a similar sized 30 year old tractor. I think the pump on my tractor is 8.7 gpm. I teed off the lines to the loader and have heard it makes a big difference in flow/speed. I also found a big difference between idle and about 2K in flow. After that it didn't seem to matter that much. With a big fat wedge you can pop the round faster so the cylinder doesn't have to travel as far. The problem I see with a 4 way and a slow cylinder is that you may have to drive the cylinder so much further that you lose any advantage of the 4 way. I'm interested to hear your what you find.

 

[48rob]

I have a similar splitter with a similar sized 30 year old tractor. I think the pump on my tractor is 8.7 gpm. I teed off the lines to the loader and have heard it makes a big difference in flow/speed. I also found a big difference between idle and about 2K in flow. After that it didn’t seem to matter that much. With a big fat wedge you can pop the round faster so the cylinder doesn’t have to travel as far. The problem I see with a 4 way and a slow cylinder is that you may have to drive the cylinder so much further that you lose any advantage of the 4 way. I’m interested to hear your what you find.

Good info, thank you!

I'll do some experimenting and report back...

Rob

 

[LLigetfa]

Is this a wedge on beam or wedge on ram? Wedge on beam often tend to be narrower. Wedge on ram tend to be wider to make room for the bolt-up to the ram. 5 ton does not give you much margin for a four way. A four way on ram can put a lot of uneven torque on it. Look at using a staggered four way so that it doesn't meet the full resistance all at once.

 

[smokinj]

Thanks for the info!

Nice calculator!

It says with current setup, I have a 5 ton splitter.
If I had double the 2100psi, it would be a 10 ton splitter.

Anyone know how much force is required to run a 4 way head?
Also, how much does sharpness of the wege factor in ability to split?
The wedge on this splitter isn't great, and it is fairly wide, as in wedge angle from blade edge to the back of the wedge.

I keep having thoughts of hooking this thing to our backhoe, using either the curl cylinder for the ram, or just adding some quick disconnects for better pressure/speed...

I'll try to get some pictures today.

Rob

If its 10 tons no way is it going to run a 4-way. If your looking to do 4 cords a day its really going to come down to the OP. It Always does. Short stroker Baby....

 

[48rob]

its really going to come down to the OP.

Sorry, I'm not up on all the different abreviations...

"OP"
original poster
operating pressure
operators positioning
???

Rob

 

[smokinj]

its really going to come down to the OP.

Sorry, I'm not up on all the different abreviations...

"OP"
original poster
operating pressure
operators positioning
???

Rob

Operator "The guy on the splitter". 4 cords is pretty aggressive for one person. Can be done short strok each turn and a good supply of stright wood and that ten ton will do it. Big job running like that for very many days.

 

[48rob]

Is this a wedge on beam or wedge on ram?

Hi,

The wedge is affixed to the beam.
The ram has a flat plate that pushes the log into the wedge.

The wedge is 8" tall.
Works good for the 8"-12" rounds we are/will be splitting, or it has thus far.
We just ran six 10" rounds through it last night to make sure the thing even works...

I did try a much larger round, about 18-20" and it would not split it.
I tried center first, then at the edge, but no go.

Speaking of uneven pressures, the wedge "seems" to be slightly cocked to one side.
I'll lay a straight edge on it later to check.
That may be causing a bit of trouble too.
Not sure if it was welded on crooked, or if it bent at some point.
Much to still explore!

Thanks for the tips!

Rob

 

[smokinj]

How many cords total are you looking at?

 

[48rob]

Operator. 4 cords is pretty aggressive for one person. Can be done short strok each turn and a good supply of stright wood and that ten ton will do it. Big job running like that for very many days.

Thank you!

Yes, it would be a good workout...
I'm trying to balance the amount of labor against what the wood will sell for, in addition to the labor cost to load, unload, stack, and deliver.
There isn't a lot of margin...
Breaking even would be good!
While we aren't looking to "get into" the firewood business as a profit center, we have the opportunity with the land we're clearing, and in the future, the wood from the trees we cut down, prune, etc, in the residential communities we own/run (thousands of trees...) to make use of this wood and use the proceeds to help offset operating costs.

The heavy workload would only be a couple days at a time, a few times a year.
The need to do volume is just economics.
If one man can only split 2 ricks a day, we'll be bankrupt...

Thanks for your help and thoughts!

Rob

 

[48rob]

How many cords total are you looking at?

About 12-15 per year for the next three years, then less, maybe 3-6 per year.

Rob

 

[SolarAndWood]

I did try a much larger round, about 18-20" and it would not split it.

I had that issue too. It would often stop the ram until it built enough pressure to split the round. I minimized this by running at 2K instead of idle but is still a PIA. The 2 stage pump on the electric splitter doesn't have that issue even with a fatter wedge. Given that, I wouldn't bother with a 4 way. You are better off short stroking.

 

[smokinj]

Operator. 4 cords is pretty aggressive for one person. Can be done short strok each turn and a good supply of stright wood and that ten ton will do it. Big job running like that for very many days.

Thank you!

Yes, it would be a good workout...
I'm trying to balance the amount of labor against what the wood will sell for, in addition to the labor cost to load, unload, stack, and deliver.
There isn't a lot of margin...
Breaking even would be good!
While we aren't looking to "get into" the firewood business as a profit center, we have the opportunity with the land we're clearing, and in the future, the wood from the trees we cut down, prune, etc, in the residential communities we own/run (thousands of trees...) to make use of this wood and use the proceeds to help offset operating costs.

The heavy workload would only be a couple days at a time, a few times a year.
The need to do volume is just economics.
If one man can only split 2 ricks a day, we'll be bankrupt...

Thanks for your help and thoughts!

Rob

Yea thats what I am getting at there is alot to it, and labor is always key! I pay 10 bucks an hour for splitting and I am the 2nd man FREE if you will. So I can run a cord or close to a cord an hour with 2 guys going, but still comes in around 4 cords in four hours and we are dead tired. Could not do 8 in a day thats for sure. Bottom line 4 cords 40.00 bucks + gas. Would not want to run back to back days either.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Could not do 8 in a day thats for sure. Bottom line 4 cords 40.00 bucks + gas. Would not want to run back to back days either.

Sally :lol: j/k I do a cord in an hour and a half with the pile of rounds right by the splitter and tossing the splits over the bank. I don't go more than 4 hours a day either.

 

[smokinj]

Could not do 8 in a day thats for sure. Bottom line 4 cords 40.00 bucks + gas. Would not want to run back to back days either.

Sally :lol: j/k I do a cord in an hour and a half with the pile of rounds right by the splitter and tossing the splits over the bank. I don't go more than 4 hours a day either.

3 days a week like that and some good protein and your going to be a body builder! lol It can be done!

 

[SolarAndWood]

Guess I need to swap beer for good protein

 

[48rob]

Here are some pictures of the splitter.

It appears to be home made.
It seems fairly well done, the critical welds look okay.

When we're in the field, and need more power to get the big rounds into a managable size, I put this together...

Haven't tried the 4 way yet, but a single tooth will split a pretty good sized round with ease!

Rob

 

[smokinj]

How many total cords you going to have? (rough guess)

 

[48rob]

Hi Jay,

You must have missed my post on page one...

How many cords total are you looking at?

About 12-15 per year for the next three years, then less, maybe 3-6 per year.

Rob

 

[smokinj]

Hi Jay,

You must have missed my post on page one...

How many cords total are you looking at?

About 12-15 per year for the next three years, then less, maybe 3-6 per year.

Rob

I think you will be fine....I would look at maybe getting the levers in a good spot to make it easier for one person to operate it...Seems awkward(dont know if its possible). I thought you where looking at a much larger number. Not to look light at 12-15 cords a year but I was thinking 100+.lol

The 4 cord a day thing had me thinking much larger numbers.

 

[48rob]

Jay,

Thanks!

I may be off on the cord numbers...
I figured 4-6 cords for a pile I posted a picture of here, most everyone else thought it was 3-4 cords.
I got that pile cut spilt and stacked, ended up being 2-1/3 cords...
Using that info, I took a guess at what was left, some down in piles, and the rest still standing.
But even doubled, it isn't close to your hundred!

I think we wouldn't have any problem buying a $1500.00 splitter if there was enough volume.
Heck, a 80 thousand dollar processor would be justifiable if we made enough to pay for it along with wages and profit!
(unlikely though, not so many wood burners here on the prairie...)
For this winter at least, I'm hoping the cheapo splitter will allow me to determine if we're going to break even, make a little money, or go back to tossing whole trees on the burn pile.

The levers in their current position look like an afterthought.
Judging from the poor welding of the bracket that holds them anyway.
I planned to weld on a new bracket along with a good cleanup and some paint.
Where would you locate it, closer to the wedge end?
I've split all of 6 rounds in my life with a power splitter (I have a good maul) it seemed like a little closer to the loading area would be better?
And I think a catcher table under/behind the wedge would be effort well expended.

Rob

 

[smokinj]

Jay,

Thanks!

I may be off on the cord numbers...
I figured 4-6 cords for a pile I posted a picture of here, most everyone else thought it was 3-4 cords.
I got that pile cut spilt and stacked, ended up being 2-1/3 cords...
Using that info, I took a guess at what was left, some down in piles, and the rest still standing.
But even doubled, it isn't close to your hundred!

I think we wouldn't have any problem buying a $1500.00 splitter if there was enough volume.
Heck, a 80 thousand dollar processor would be justifiable if we made enough to pay for it along with wages and profit!
(unlikely though, not so many wood burners here on the prairie...)
For this winter at least, I'm hoping the cheapo splitter will allow me to determine if we're going to break even, make a little money, or go back to tossing whole trees on the burn pile.

The levers in their current position look like an afterthought.
Judging from the poor welding of the bracket that holds them anyway.
I planned to weld on a new bracket along with a good cleanup and some paint.
Where would you locate it, closer to the wedge end?
I've split all of 6 rounds in my life with a power splitter (I have a good maul) it seemed like a little closer to the loading area would be better?
And I think a catcher table under/behind the wedge would be effort well expended.

Rob

I would get them loose (levers) get in a splitting position and try and feel your way with it at that point (best fit when working). Your doing it right simple is best just dont over estimate what can be done. You are aggressive and that is the main thing one needs to make a Little coin. weight in weight out! Good protein never hurts!

With that splitter(4 cords) I would say one person 6-7 hrs. and two people 5-5 1/2 if the control was set up right. No matter what your doing with any tree its just droping weight from felling to good season wood.