High altitude and radiant stoves

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precaud

Minister of Fire
Hearth Supporter
Jan 20, 2006
2,307
Sunny New Mexico
www.linearz.com
I've lived at 7100 feet altitude for most of the last 40 years, and heated at least partially with wood for all of those, using all types of stoves. In that time I have developed a definite preference for radiant heaters over convectors. (Yeah, my current Kent Tile Fire is a convector, but I haven't been able to find a Sherwood (the radiant version) and one can't be so choosey with used stoves).

People at all altitudes tend to prefer radiant stoves; their sun-like radiance just feels good. But as I've recently re-learned when dealing with heated air from a solar heater, at high altitude, there is more to it than just mere preference. Radiants are actually more efficient up here in the clouds.

Convectors are designed to heat the air as much as possible, then that air is moved through the space to heat it. Air IS the heat distribution medium.

Problem is, at higher altitudes, air is less dense. And just as with any other material, lower mass means less heat storage ability. So at higher altitudes, moving the same amount of air means you can move less heat than at near sea level. Here at 7100 ft., air mass is 24% less. That's a pretty significant hit on your heat transfer mechanism - as much or more than the efficiency difference between the best and worst stoves made today.

Counterbalancing this is the fact that the air in the room also weighs less, and is therefore easier to heat up. But by using a primarily radiant heater, we can sidestep the distribution inefficiency of air and have more sensible heat throughout a room.

But this only works well within a single room. If you need to heat multiple rooms from a single location, radiants don't do as well. But for the greatest comfort within a single room at altitude, give me a radiant!
 
Thus the reason I love the fact that my home has duct work for Central Air and my furnace (when needed). I can simply turn the blower on, on the furnace, to balance out the heat in the house, being generated by the radiant heat stove in my living room.

-Soupy1957
 
soupy1957 said:
Thus the reason I love the fact that my home has duct work for Central Air and my furnace (when needed). I can simply turn the blower on, on the furnace, to balance out the heat in the house, being generated by the radiant heat stove in my living room.

-Soupy1957

But if you lived at 7100' elevation, the forced-air heat wouldn't work nearly as well.
 
soupy1957 said:
Thus the reason I love the fact that my home has duct work for Central Air and my furnace (when needed). I can simply turn the blower on, on the furnace, to balance out the heat in the house, being generated by the radiant heat stove in my living room.

-Soupy1957

Isn't the Rainier is a convective stove?
 
I always thought of it as radiant............but I could be screwed up. To me a "radiant" stove "radiates" the heat...........and my Rainier certainly does that........lol. I suppose that convection may be correct.........never thought about it really.

-Soupy1957
 
The Rainier does radiate heat out of the front. But as I recall is shielded with a convective jacket on all sides but the front. Is your stove not this way?
 
I don't even know what a "convective jacket" IS, let alone tell you if my stove has one. It has fire brick inside, (back wall, and side walls) if that's what you mean.

-Soupy1957
 
soupy, if your Ranier is like the one on Avalon's website, it has convective jackets on the sides, back, and top, and is a direct radiator off the front. Most convective stoves are set up like that, though many don't have the convective cover on the top. Avalon describes it as "Featuring both radiant surfaces and a convection heat exchanger".
 
soupy1957 said:
I don't even know what a "convective jacket" IS, let alone tell you if my stove has one. It has fire brick inside, (back wall, and side walls) if that's what you mean.

-Soupy1957

I just downloaded the Avalon brochure from their website. Page 2 has a diagram and description of how the convective system works on your stove.
 
Back to the OP,

If convection doesn't work as well, wouldn't the stove run hotter? If so, you may get less air moving through the unit but it would be warmer?

Just thinking here.

pen
 
Makes complete sense to me, pen. Compared to what I read on this board about what others do, I have always run my stoves "hot".
 
I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Are there truly stoves listed as radiant stoves? Seems as though all stoves would heat through both mechanisms to some degree. Some stoves would be more radiant (a stand alone would stove with no blowers or paneling but that this type of stove would still create convection currents within the room: hot air rises and cool air would move in from the bottom of the room to take its place.

My stove is definitely a convection stove as it is a ZC Fireplace with blowers, but I definitely get radiant heating out of the front.

I think all stoves do a bit of both.
 
aansorge said:
I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Are there truly stoves listed as radiant stoves? Seems as though all stoves would heat through both mechanisms to some degree. Some stoves would be more radiant (a stand alone would stove with no blowers or paneling but that this type of stove would still create convection currents within the room: hot air rises and cool air would move in from the bottom of the room to take its place.

My stove is definitely a convection stove as it is a ZC Fireplace with blowers, but I definitely get radiant heating out of the front.

I think all stoves do a bit of both.

Morso lists their stoves as radiant or convection.
 
aansorge said:
I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Are there truly stoves listed as radiant stoves? Seems as though all stoves would heat through both mechanisms to some degree. Some stoves would be more radiant (a stand alone would stove with no blowers or paneling but that this type of stove would still create convection currents within the room: hot air rises and cool air would move in from the bottom of the room to take its place.

My stove is definitely a convection stove as it is a ZC Fireplace with blowers, but I definitely get radiant heating out of the front.

I think all stoves do a bit of both.

Of course, all stoves do a bit of both. But the ratio can be quite different between them.

A "pure" radiator (one with no jackets/panels, like many cast iron stoves) still sets up convective air currents in the room, as cold air washes over them, gets heated, and rises. But it will still radiate a greater percentage of its heat into nearby objects.

On the other end, a "pure" convection stove (if there is such a thing) will still radiate some of its heat, but not much. On my Tile Fire, which is jacketed on all surfaces except the loading door, the hearth bricks just 5 inches to the sides of the stove are barely warm to touch, until you get above the stove where the connecting pipe is radiating into them. Even when it's cranking, from where I sit about 12 feet away, I can barely feel radiated heat off the front. But it does a much better job of heating the adjacent rooms than a radiator does.

Just a reminder, the point of this thread is to bring attention to their efficiency difference at high altitudes.
 
To me "radiant" heat is heat right from the source..think open face electric heater with a protective grill over the elements.
If you open the stove door you will have radiant heat hitting you in the face.
To me all wood stoves are convection...even 0 clearance inserts..you just need a blower to make it work better.

Marketing is everything.
 
I would venture to say any decrease in convective heat transfer (via air as a heat transfer medium) could be made up for by use of a fan on a convective stove.
 
MarkinNC said:
I would venture to say any decrease in convective heat transfer (via air as a heat transfer medium) could be made up for by use of a fan on a convective stove.

Yes, true, but then you have to live with the noise.
 
That noise could be trivial, especially with the virtually silent ecofan. Even the blower on our Alderlea is very quiet unless run on high speed.
 
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