How do you get to the sweet spot?

[Corriewf]

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I'm new so lets pretend not right? Ok trying to make heads or tails out of this air cut off and timing. Lets say the scenario is getting up out of bed, see some coals and decide to get teh fire going. I put some splits on and crack the door. The wood starts to catch good so I close the door. Here is where I am getting a little stuck. Do I leave the air wide open until I see secondaries or do I let the wood get engulfed in flame and start closing it down? From what I understand the stove will get hotter if I close her down. I have a small firebox so it seems to me if I leave her wide open till I get secondaries, its almost time to throw more wood on her soon.

What do you guys do with the air? Whats your method to getting the stove up to a nice 400+ degree temp?


Thanks for your help.

 

[ckarotka]

I'm kinda new myself but the other guys will want to know what kind of stove your using. Model? Cast or steel? Is you wood dry? Hard or soft wood? Chimney set up?

 

[Corriewf]

I'm kinda new myself but the other guys will want to know what kind of stove your using. Model? Cast or steel? Is you wood dry? Hard or soft wood? Chimney set up?

I would give all that info but don't find it relevant. I can get her up to 400+. I am just looking for the best method. If people can post theirs it would greatly help me. I have been testing different methods but and short sighted on a really good one to try. Always sucks being new to something.


Ok ok ok just to keep people happy. Wood is seasoned for at least 3 years, oak. Steel vogelzang insert with SS everguard liner 24 feet up. Draft is perfect.

 

[EKLawton]

run air openuntil good fire then slowly cut back the air. if you leave it open until the secondarys are burning you lost alot up the chimney.

 

[Corriewf]

run air openuntil good fire then slowly cut back the air. if you leave it open until the secondarys are burning you lost alot up the chimney.

How many minutes would you say you run air open for a good fire before you start cutting back?

 

[myzamboni]

run air openuntil good fire then slowly cut back the air. if you leave it open until the secondarys are burning you lost alot up the chimney.

How many minutes would you say you run air open for a good fire before you start cutting back?

I reload and run wide open for 10 min. Slide air half-closed for another 10 minutes, then slide the lever all the way left (Note: this is with softwoods. For hardwoods it's 15, 10 and closed.)

 

[Corriewf]

run air openuntil good fire then slowly cut back the air. if you leave it open until the secondarys are burning you lost alot up the chimney.

How many minutes would you say you run air open for a good fire before you start cutting back?

I reload and run wide open for 10 min. Slide air half-closed for another 10 minutes, then slide the lever all the way left (Note: this is with softwoods. For hardwoods it's 15, 10 and closed.)

Awesome! That's exactly the kind of info I am looking for. Thank you. Keep them coming people. I want to try a bunch of different methods to see which one works for me.


Myzamboni do you also do this when you load before bed as well?

 

[WidowMaker]

How do you get to the sweet spot


===
I start by nibbling on her ear a little, then I let my hand si....

Oh never mind ..what the other guys said...

 

[myzamboni]

run air openuntil good fire then slowly cut back the air. if you leave it open until the secondarys are burning you lost alot up the chimney.

How many minutes would you say you run air open for a good fire before you start cutting back?

I reload and run wide open for 10 min. Slide air half-closed for another 10 minutes, then slide the lever all the way left (Note: this is with softwoods. For hardwoods it's 15, 10 and closed.)

Awesome! That's exactly the kind of info I am looking for. Thank you. Keep them coming people. I want to try a bunch of different methods to see which one works for me.


Myzamboni do you also do this when you load before bed as well?

I do this with every reload rregardless of the time of day. I have a smaller stove so I don't try to get overnight burns. However, this morning I was able to reignite from coals after 11 hours since the last reload (with pine!).

 

[EKLawton]

Thats what i do. Im sorry about not putting that in my answer..my bad..

 

[drdoct]

oh my...

Not sure it can be a timed thing. I'll leave my door cracked until the fire gets up around 400* then I'll close it and leave the air open until around 500*. Then I'll cut the air in half and then completely off around 575. I realize that I probably lose some up the chimney, but I absolutely hate having a smoldering type of fire in the box. Without the thermometer I would say... I keep the door open until the fire is going really good and when I close the door the secondaries light off. After that it's just a feeling on when to turn it down. I can smell mine when it gets a little past the turning down point.

 

[Corriewf]

How do you get to the sweet spot


===
I start by nibbling on her ear a little, then I let my hand si....

Oh never mind ..what the other guys said...

Just be careful if she starts glowing, might be overfiring. ahahah!

 

[Corriewf]

run air openuntil good fire then slowly cut back the air. if you leave it open until the secondarys are burning you lost alot up the chimney.

How many minutes would you say you run air open for a good fire before you start cutting back?

I reload and run wide open for 10 min. Slide air half-closed for another 10 minutes, then slide the lever all the way left (Note: this is with softwoods. For hardwoods it's 15, 10 and closed.)

Awesome! That's exactly the kind of info I am looking for. Thank you. Keep them coming people. I want to try a bunch of different methods to see which one works for me.


Myzamboni do you also do this when you load before bed as well?

I do this with every reload rregardless of the time of day. I have a smaller stove so I don't try to get overnight burns. However, this morning I was able to reignite from coals after 11 hours since the last reload (with pine!).

So you don't crack the door open at all? I have to crack the door open or it seems I don't get a nice fire going....Well unless I already have the stove up to a decent temp.

 

[Corriewf]

oh my...

Not sure it can be a timed thing. I'll leave my door cracked until the fire gets up around 400* then I'll close it and leave the air open until around 500*. Then I'll cut the air in half and then completely off around 575. I realize that I probably lose some up the chimney, but I absolutely hate having a smoldering type of fire in the box. Without the thermometer I would say... I keep the door open until the fire is going really good and when I close the door the secondaries light off. After that it's just a feeling on when to turn it down. I can smell mine when it gets a little past the turning down point.

I have noticed with my vogelzang that part of the way into starting a good burn, when I go in and poke around, the extra air from the door cracking jumpstarts the secondaries. I might need to try your method. It sounds like a really fast way to get the stove up to temp. That is exactly what I want to do. Right now it is taking me an hour at least and with a small firebox, that is too long. The only bad thing is like you said, burning up a lot of wood leaving the door ajar for that long.

Once you get it up to temp and go to add more wood, do you leave the door cracked again or just put more wood in and leaved the air open OR do nothing and let the wood burn on it's own since the stove is going good?

 

[SlyFerret]

I can't keep my stove going 24/7 unless we're down in the single digits with a little bit of wind chill.

Most days, I'm starting a cold stove when I get home from work, warm up the house while we watch TV, go to bed, and let everything coast until the next evening.

When we get into a little colder weather, I'll start it up in the morning too. I rarely have coals to start from. My start up process usually takes about 40-45 minutes.

For a cold start, I load the stove up with 5 or 6 splits (my wood is pretty good, so I'm not fighting with green wood). I tuck a quarter of a SuperCedar fire starter between a couple splits down at the bottom. I make sure I let the splits aren't packed so tight that the fire can't work its way up between them. When I first light the fire starter, I leave the door open about an inch and pull the air control all the way open. I let it burn this way for about 10 minutes or so. It's more about what it looks like than how long it's been.

As the fire picks up and starts taking hold, I shut the door but do not latch it. This still allows air to leak in around the gasket.

After a few more minutes of this, if the fire is continuing to grow, I will latch the door, but not "bump" it tight.

Another few minutes, and I can usually bump the handle down a few times with my fist to snug up the latch. At this point, the secondaries are starting to stabilize.

A few minutes later, I slide the air control lever about half way to my normal "cruising" position. At this point, the secondary combustion is running pretty strong.

As the stove approaches 500, I push the air lever back the rest of the way to my normal "cruising" position.

My 30 generally will cruise at 500-550.

As I said, I really don't time each stage. It's more about paying attention to how the fire is developing inside, and how the secondaries are doing as the stove gets hot enough to support secondary combustion. Each time you cut the air back a little more, the fire will shrink a little bit at first, but should come back and continue to grow as long as you're not getting in a hurry and cutting the air back too quickly.

-SF

 

[LLigetfa]

If you have to leave the door open to get it going it may be a indication of other issues. Either there is poor draft, a pressure deficit, or wood that isn't quite dry enough. Once the wood is even partially engulfed in flame, the door should be closed. Do NOT run the stove with the door ajar waiting for secondary combustion.

If that's what it takes to get a hot fire, you have issues that you must resolve. An OAK might help to improve air supply.

 

[Corriewf]

If you have to leave the door open to get it going it may be a indication of other issues. Either there is poor draft, a pressure deficit, or wood that isn't quite dry enough. Once the wood is even partially engulfed in flame, the door should be closed. Do NOT run the stove with the door ajar waiting for secondary combustion.

If that's what it takes to get a hot fire, you have issues that you must resolve. An OAK might help to improve air supply.

Well I don't have to per say do that but it does seem to jumpstart the process. I noticed it only when I went poking around with the err poker. I had to use a 5.5 SS for my chimney so I might be a little too small there. I don't seem to get any back draft. I will def not run it with the door open too long now that you said that though. What is an OAK btw?

 

[SlyFerret]

This is the method that I have found that gets me going the quickest, considering I'm not using any kindling.

It can be done without the door being open, but it takes a little longer, and I don't see the need to produce the extra smoke in the process of waiting for it to take off.

-SF

 

[LLigetfa]

What is an OAK btw?

An OAK is an Outside Air Kit. Some stoves have an option for a dedicated OAK that works to supercharge the stove. If you open a window a crack and feel an inrush of air, think about that air pressure blowing into the stove. On stoves that have a lazy air supply, it can make a big difference. It can however sometimes work against you if the stove combustion air control cannot close down far enough.

 

[carinya]

I have a new heater this year so I'm not consistent in how I get it to cruise.

The old Kent had a slide control for air supply & it was easy to gauge where the lever was.

This new 13 has a lever that is a push/pull & I haven't been able to eyeball it effectively. So, I pulled out an old wooden ruler & have discovered my cruising heat is when the end of the lever is five & seven tenths of an inch out from the stove. :smirk: ......please, no comments from the peanut gallery.....

I get there after slowly closing down from the raging fire mode.

 

[oconnor]

I really found that a wind up timer (remonds me to go back and check the stove - less overfiring that way) and a thermometer were a big help in my learning how to adjust my stove. SO much varies with wood quality, that I now use the thermometer and "time to heat up" to help me guage how dry the wood is.

Closing the door as soon as possible speed my heat-up 'cause less diluting air is added to the firebox. After that, I simply started out by backing off the primary air enough to just maintain bright flames. Secondary combustion happens automatically once the temps and draft are right - primary closed enough to allow the draft to draw air into the firebox thru the secondary air system, and enough temp in the stove to keep the wood offgassing.

So, rather than seeing this as the quest for secondary combustion, I took it as a quest for even stove top temps with reduced primary air, while always having bright flames. Those steps led me to clean burns, which is what the secondary combustion is all about in the end.

This all workes way better with DRY WOOD - The wood that was in my basement since last November is now really dry, and has given me the best wood heating experience to date. I have learned my lesson, and will focus on a real good wood supply for now on, as that makes all of the process easier to succeed at.

 

[Jags]

I feel so caveman like. I take a large armload of wood to the stove. Shove it full. Close door. Open primary to full open. Allow fire to fully engulf new wood - stove top 500+F. Shut down primary to 90% closed. Walk away for several hours.

 

[highmark800]

On this site and I dont remember where, is a link to some videos. Some of them are very helpful, some are just dumb but the one that helped me find the sweet spot was on there and it really helped alot.

 

[firefighterjake]

Well this is what I did last night (and every time I reload the firebox).

I had a fire going when I came home last night around 5 p.m. or so . . .

Fell asleep at 7:30 (yes I am a light weight sometimes) . . .

Woke up at 9:30 and my wife said the fire was down to coals.

When out to find large coals . . . put in several small to medium sized splits on the coals. Placed larger splits and rounds on top. Opened the air all the way.

Turned on the TV and started watching Robot Chicken episode.

5-10 minutes later . . . wood was charring well and the flue temp was above the creosote producing temp so I cut the air back to the halfway point. Too sleepy to bother checking the stove top temp. Turned off the paused Robot Chicken episode and started watching TV again.

5-10 minutes later . . . fire has now progressed to the point where it is now fillin the entire firebox. All wood is on fire and well charred. Temps on the flue and stove top (if I had actually bothered to check those temps) are good and warm (i.e. in the Goldilocks zone of being just right -- no risk of overfiring, but burning hot enough to sustain secondary burning and not produce creosote). Turned down the air control all the way "closed." Watched the fire's secondaries fire off . . . a bit weaker than I like to see, but present . . . if I was a little more awake and the TV show wasn't ending I would have opened the air control to the quarter mark for a few minutes before turning it back down to the "closed" position . . . but I was tired, the show was over and the secondaries were present so I headed back to bed.

Woke up this morning at 4:30 to a half decent bed of coals . . . restarted the whole procedure, but used some cedar kindling to get the fire going a little faster since I needed to get ready for work.