How to handle flooring install snafu with shop

[wahoowad]

I had wood floors installed this week in my downstairs. I chose an engineered product and had it glued down on my concrete slab. I wanted that solid flooring feel and not the more cushiony feel/sound from a floating floor on a pad. In general it looks great.

There are two small areas where I hear the wood flooring creak (quite loudly and noticably) when I step on it. This suggests to me they did not glue it down properly, otherwise it would be immobile like the rest of the floor. Hearing this creak really annoys me as I had them rip out an older wood floor that had loosened over the years and creaked (and had water damage from a burst water pipe).

They still have about 20% of the job left to do which is half of one room left to install and then the quarter round trim molding put down all around the edges, cleanup, final touches, etc. They think they will be done tomorrow (Monday). As with most companies I expect them to try and talk their way out of fixing these two areas. It will require them to remove a significant amount of flooring to reach it, flooring that has already been glued down and will likely mean they have to replace those sections upon forcible removal. That's materials plus labor.

I'm wondering if I should address it with the installer or the store manager? I don't want that installer finishing the job in my house if he's pissed offand expected to eat the man hours to fix the job (I suspct he's more like a part timer or contractor). I was thinking of waiting for the full job to be complete so I can inspect the entire job and give them a punch list of items to resolve. My girlfriend says I should let them know right away.

Also wondering if I should withhold some or all the final payment (~$4k) if they do not agree to address the creaking. I signed a 'sales acknowledgement' saying final payment was due upon install. Maybe they will address these items, I'm just preparing for if they don't.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'd let them know as soon as possible. There may not be anything they can do about it though. The subfloor may have a dip under it and the glue my not have a enough substrate to hold onto. I have a spot in the flooring I put down just like that. It is what it is.... 3/4" thick hardwood flooring has more resistance than 3/8" plywood.

Matt

 

[wahoowad]

Here's a picture of one area. I used a straight ruler and led light to show the uneveness. Hard for you to tell but this is about a 1/4" difference and the high spots are definitely not glued down.

 

[wahoowad]

The subfloor may have a dip under it and the glue my not have a enough substrate to hold onto.

Matt

Thanks, Matt. Mine is a concrete slab and it appeared clean and level. I know as we had bare concrete for several days between the removal and install phases. And while I did not run a level across the floor here I did not notice any unevenness and had actively looked to see if I saw anything that might present an install challenge. I saw no high/low spots or residual glue/materials from the prior wood floor. They actually did a good job cleaning up the floor prior to the install.

They should have informed me if they discovered If there was an issue with the floor.

 

[Arc_Dad]

I may speak to the manufacturer of the flooring. I can't imagine any company recommending the install that way. Slabs generally have a pitch towards a drain, therefore aren't level by design. I would also make sure the installer gives some warranty, but I see trouble there. That being said, I'm not an expert but I see trouble brewing with your floor. Good luck.

 

[wahoowad]

I may speak to the manufacturer of the flooring. I can't imagine any company recommending the install that way. Slabs generally have a pitch towards a drain, therefore aren't level by design. I would also make sure the installer gives some warranty, but I see trouble there. That being said, I'm not an expert but I see trouble brewing with your floor. Good luck.

Yup, my worry too. The area shown in the pic is directly in front of my kitchen sink. When I walk away from the sink the flooring starts decompressing and makes a repeated ticking noise that sounds exactly like water dropping onto the floor. I keep going back to check to make sure I don't have a water leak onto my new flooring, but it is just the sound of the wood. The manufacturer does recommend glue on slab installation. Your point about sloping towards a drain sounds like what I may have going on. I don't want a prospective buyer of my home to hear that though - sounds like a defect.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

What I did for a few of my spots that were noticed as I was gluing them down was set a heavy weight on the spot to hold it down to the substrate while the glue dried. It worked with all but one spot.

I'm surprised they recommended glue on slab. The wicking could cause the wood to expand. With the plywood it could cause delamination.

Matt

 

[Gooserider]

I don't know if it would work or not, but I would think that an alternative to ripping up the floor might be to drill a small hole or two in the areas that aren't sticking and inject some sort of glue or filler... Presumably fill the gap between the wood and the floor, both sticking it down and making it so that it can't move...

I would agree with those who said point the problem out early - be nice about it, but... "Most of the floor looks great, but there are these few spots..." I have no expertise in the matter, but it would seem like if there is any difference in how hard it is to fix, it would be easier to do it sooner rather than later - before the glue has fully cured, and / or more work that would have to be torn up is done...

Gooserider

 

[madrone]

I'm surprised they recommended glue on slab. The wicking could cause the wood to expand. With the plywood it could cause delamination.

Matt

That's what I was thinking. Don't most wood floors usually recommend a vapor barrier on concrete?

 

[webby3650]

I kinda like the the noise you are describing, it gives you time to put a round in your 45. before they reach your bedroom! I would let them know as soon as possible, they should make it right and remember it is a WOOD product, be nice.

 

[fbelec]

i have a pergo floor that i put down in my kitchen a few years ago, and with this humidity we are having right now i have 2 spots in which the floor creaks. it a little to close to my cabinet. but. pergo recommends 1/4 inch of space for it to move around it said in my directions do not glue the floor down just glue the interlocking seems. it suppose to be a floating floor. is yours the same. are you allowed to glue it down? i would think if it were glued down and it wanted to expand for what ever reason it might buckle.

or maybe i'm just a sparky and should keep to wires :red:

 

[jebatty]

IMO a quality floor install would require leveling any low spots in the concrete to have a flat floor. I have seen mfr install recommendations which include glue down on a concrete floor, but I think this was only at grade and not below grade.

I installed 3/4" solid wood flooring on a below grade concrete floor, but I used Dircore as the subfloor, and then screwed down the wood to the Dricore. This is a floating floor installation, and while it does not quite have the absolutely solid feel of other systems, it should be moisture protected and expansion protected. BTW, the solid floor is 3/4" white pine, 18" wide boards. These came from one of our trees, which I cut down, sawed on my bandsaw mill, dried, edged, planed, installed and varnished myself. It's been down one year and perfect so far. We did a similar above grade wood floor, also 18" wide boards, and nailed with rustic nails to the the subfloor and joists. That floor has been in place 8 years, no splits, cracks, etc.

 

[Hogwildz]

If you have the directions from one of the cartons, I would read it so your informed before talking to contractor or store.
I have Dupont Real Touch laminate flooring to install, and this particular brand says on any space over 1,000 sf, an expansion space of 1/2" must be used. Smaller rooms they recommend a minimum 1/4" space around the perimeter & any pipes, protrusions etc. Dupont also states 6mil plastic must be laid out completed covering the substrate if it is concrete. And as most laminate flooring, it is a floating system, and no gluing to the concrete.
Not sure what your particular brand calls for, but IMO any wood, engineered or laminate flooring over concrete and no plastic between is going to just suck up the moisture and warp.

 

[semipro]

Check the installation instructions. I'll bet they specify that the floor be much flatter than what your's seems to be. Sounds like application of a floor (self) leveling compound before installation should have been done.

As long as as the slab does not have moisture issues gluing is usually an approved way for attaching engineered wood floors. The installer should have taped down a patch of clear poly sheeting for a few days prior to installation to see if moisture built up under the sheet.

Good luck.

 

[semipro]

I kinda like the the noise you are describing, it gives you time to put a round in your 45. before they reach your bedroom! .

Haha Webby. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks that way! I'm refinishing some wooden stairs right now and considered addressing the squeaks. I've since reconsidered.

 

[wahoowad]

Check the installation instructions. I'll bet they specify that the floor be much flatter than what your's seems to be. Sounds like application of a floor (self) leveling compound before installation should have been done.

As long as as the slab does not have moisture issues gluing is usually an approved way for attaching engineered wood floors. The installer should have taped down a patch of clear poly sheeting for a few days prior to installation to see if moisture built up under the sheet.

Good luck.

Yes, my manufacturer instructions say this flooring can be glued down to my slab. They did recommend this ploy sheet test of rmoisture but I know they did not do it. I had other wood flooring glued down for 20 years on this floor with no problems so assume they felt it was a good floor to move forward with. They are coming by soon to look at the spots. The spot where I took the photo was flattened down when they installed the quarter round trim. I don't like the idea of that small trim holding back that pressure.

 

[d.n.f.]

A lot of people say never put wood over concrete. A vapour barrier can actually make matters worse as you are trapping moisture.
'DryCore' (or something like that) is a product that goes over the floor and then you put your flooring on top of it. Plastic on the bottom and wood on top. Bloody expensive. I am sure there are other products out there.

Not sure if I read the full post (or remembered what you said) but is there infloor heating? That I have been told can save the floor from potential moisture problems.

I saw a Holmes on Homes episode recently where a beautiful wooden floor had to be ripped up because it was installed slab on grade with a vapour barrier.

 

[drdoct]

man I miss Holmes on Homes.... He was one of the few people on tv I could stand.

 

[njtomatoguy]

My parents had their kitchen and hall done by a pro, and it squeeked. It went away after a few months. i did my office in my house, and
again, it squeeked for a while, but it went away. give it some time.

 

[firefighterjake]

man I miss Holmes on Homes.... He was one of the few people on tv I could stand.

My wife and I always enjoyed seeing that show . . . if nothing else it made me realize that no matter how bad I screwed up on a project . . . it could always be a lot worse.