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How To Tell If Your Dealer Is Honest!

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by ekarlis, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. ekarlis

    ekarlis Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    A friend of the family (widower) call me to say her pellet stove (CB1200) was not working. I checked fuses & both snap disc,s on the left side, both were good. I saw from the paper work that the unit was in warranty until
    March 2013 & suggested that she call the dealer. I let the tech in & stayed with him while he was in the house.
    First thing he says, "He changed the stat & the unit might not be under warranty." I said that the stat is merely a switch & where in the warranty does it say about a certain stat. He could not figure out what was causing the
    problem. He stated that he would have to get a hold of Quadra-Fire Tech to find out they would say. The next day he came back & stated that he would have to take the unit to the shop. The following week he brought the unit back & said that he blew out the unit with a compressed air hose, changed the resetable snap disc ( yellow wires). I told him that I checked that snap with a multi meter (contunity) & it was good. The unit has been working for the last three days & the bill $192.00. They still do not know what was cause that the unit not working. My point is, they complained about the stat, that ash was blocking the exhaust, they were fishing to void the warranty. Told her to request a written report on the cause of failure.

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  2. john193

    john193 Minister of Fire

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    The stove manufacturers typically pay out for parts and some labor. In instances where the labor costs are much higher the dealer can pass that onto you. Personally for all the work involved in moving a stove the 192 is nothing. And considering that 2/3 of all stove issues are related to the cleanliness of the stove, I don't see how the dealer was fishing to void your warranty. If he was, he could have done that before taking it out of your house and back to their shop.
  3. billb3

    billb3 Minister of Fire

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    Troubleshooting 101:
    1 test doesn't mean something is good, it passed 1 test.
  4. CT Pellet

    CT Pellet Minister of Fire

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    Torrington, CT
    Ekarlis, you are a good friend.
    Pellet stove warranty issues are some of the most frustrating issues in any consumer products business. Warranty work on a pellet stove is unique to most other types of products because of the way that the manufacturer reimburses the dealer.
    When you buy a new stove from a dealer, there is a warranty that comes with the stove. Any time you need repairs that are under warranty, you must contact the dealer that you bought your appliance from. The manufacturer will then compensate the dealer for any out of pocket expenses for the parts that failed. The dealer will not in most cases be reimbursed for the time, labor and travel to fix the unit. It is the responsibility of the dealer to make sure that there is enough of a margin on the "front end" of the sale to absorb any warranty labor on the stove during the warranty period.
    In today's economy, there is a lot of "cut throat" pricing in the stove industry, and dealers are fighting for the sales. Therefore, there is often not enough of a margin on the front end to absorb the warranty sosts, and at times, some dealers are forced to find reasons to charge for work that should be covered under warranty. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE CASE HERE, NOR AM I SAYING THAT THE FAILURE WAS NOT THE USER'S ERROR. I am just offering this information as some insight to how the warranty process generally works regarding stoves.
    In a perfect world, (actually in a perfect world, there would be no pellet stoves because we would all be living on an island with white beaches eating mango shrimp and drinking out of coconuts!) pellet stoves would be warrantied like cars. Buy it from Fast-Freddie today and get it worked on and warrantied at any dealer in the country tomorrow, no questions asked.
    jgrz0610, will711 and Eatonpcat like this.
  5. will711

    will711 Minister of Fire

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    I think that may ruin the taste of Beer;) sorry couldn't help myself.

    As always some great inside info thanks.
  6. kenstogie

    kenstogie Feeling the Heat

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    I don't understand why you can't just test the unit w/o a t-stat to make sure it's working and why it was "necessary" to take the unit. Seems like most of the work that was done could've been done on site.

    I will say that I have learned to fix more things just because the people/biz I bring it too (or come to my house) are not getting the job done (dunno if that is or is not the case here) yet still trying to charge me again and again.
    Sorry these nips aint got an endless supply of milk for you.
    Brokenwing and heat seeker like this.
  7. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

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    The dealer shod have just given her anew unit,no charge. Maybe a 12 pack if beer and a dozen wings.

    Every dealer is different and their level of knowledge is the same. The Cb1200 is a very easy to understand unit but to understand how it works can be easy or hard to understand.

    Eric
    CT Pellet and will711 like this.
  8. Thaddius Wenderoth

    Thaddius Wenderoth Feeling the Heat

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    will711 I think you will be proud of me tonight! Hitting up a bunch of micro-brews for the old ladies birthday!
    will711 likes this.
  9. will711

    will711 Minister of Fire

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    Yes I am ;ex Still wishing for some of these;) Don't if they are Micro or Macro Brew just brew;? IMG_07000005.jpg
    Thaddius Wenderoth likes this.
  10. slvrblkk

    slvrblkk Minister of Fire

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    lol....not a fan of the Cream Ale or the 12 Horse but I like the regular Genny and LOVE the Red Lager......
    will711 likes this.
  11. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    I went back and forth in PM's with ekarlis. He tried just about everything. I feel as if he prob checked everything before letting the dealer have it (something he didn't mention, but figured I would)

    Ekarlis- I'm glad she finally got it working. That price is pretty good for the moving of the unit. But I would have wanted to know what was wrong also. Hope she gets many more yrs of enjoyment out of it.
  12. Thaddius Wenderoth

    Thaddius Wenderoth Feeling the Heat

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    I dislike and like this statement all in one! I must sit and ponder on my confusion!
  13. Thaddius Wenderoth

    Thaddius Wenderoth Feeling the Heat

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    Just the picture brings a smile to my face! Ended up going with Jameson Blue Label. What the hell its a special occasion. That and a little Crown Royal should make for a fun night and as I can't seem to go more than an hour without being on this forum it should make for some interesting reading for my fellow pellet burners as well.
    ekarlis likes this.
  14. ekarlis

    ekarlis Member

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    Dec 3, 2010
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    Loc:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Hi Guys:
    CT & Dexter, I thank you for your help & support. All the rest, I am a Genesse fan(displaced from Western
    New York to Cincinnati). I can get Genesse down here. Getting back to the subject. I feel that the snap disc was
    not the problem (I ran contnuity check), they tightened a few connections & it started working. If they would have been honest & said we do not know what caused the failure. Could have accepted that. Just feel that
    a widower was getting ripped off, but how to prove it.
    Thanks.
  15. CT Pellet

    CT Pellet Minister of Fire

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    Torrington, CT
    Here is how I see it, but someone please correct me if I am wrong.
    If the stove failed because of a lack of maintenance, then it is something that the owner needs to be responsible for. There are certain things that the owner needs to do to ensure that the appliance is operating properly. If this was why the unit failed, then the owner needs to pay up. But, if this is the reason that it failed, and a "good cleaning" was all that it needed, then the unit did not need to go back to the shop. If the remedy here was so extensive that the unit needed to be brought back to be fixed, then one would think this goes beyond a simple maintenance issue. But there again, there may in fact be a very practical and legitimate reason that the dealer determined that the stove needed to go back to the shop, and without any input from the dealer, we are only seeing this from one perspective. But it is worthwhile to point out that if the dealer cannot determine what caused the failure, then the dealer cannot by default, just say that it was simple operator error because of a lack of any other reasonable explaination.
    I deal with and/or interact with many, many stove shops and stove repair techs. I am now able to tell pretty much within a few minutes of conversation, which ones are the 'real deal" and which ones could not make it selling hot dogs out of a steam cart on 5th ave. The frustrating part for the end user is that many disputes are not as a result of a dealer trying to pull a fast one, but in reality, quite often, you have both sides who feel that they are legitimately correct.
  16. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

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    You're in Little Kings territory!!

    Glad your problem is solved.
  17. kenstogie

    kenstogie Feeling the Heat

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    Just like the Hatfields and McCoys. Good Show BTW, highly recommend that. :)
    DexterDay likes this.
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Feeling the Heat

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    just my 2 cents thrown in the mix. having someone looking over your shoulder prompted the repair guy to bring the stove to the shop, just saying! not that it was right or wrong but speculating on the motive.....
    now back to my beer, popcorn & chair in hand.:)
  19. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

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    Shokan, NY
    I'm a tech. And I'm a dealer. Titles like in this topic always ruffle my feathers. But I try to take the point of view of the user and not make a judgement too soon. Most of the time I think it boils down to the 'vernacular" of this forum and other internet sites. It's popular to talk about dealers in a negative way and share stories that seem to indicate that "my dealer is worse than your dealer".

    Chances are if your dealer really is dishonest they aren't here are hearth.com reading your story and trying to improve the way they treat consumers. I fail to see the logic of the "how-to-tell" type of comment. Anecdotal evidence aside, I can't tell if your dealer is honest or not just because you disagree with their approach to fixing your stove.

    As a tech, sometimes I don't know exactly what is wrong. And I don't always tell the user. It depends on how they treat me. If I am being "tested" and assumed guilty until I prove otherwise, the relationship is already sour and I may not feel comfortable sharing. But if I am working with a nice person who needs help and respects my ability to solve the problem I will usually share what I know, or don't know.

    Sometimes taking the stove into the shop is the right thing to do BECAUSE you don't know what is wrong yet. It costs me a lot of money to travel and a lot of time to troubleshoot a pellet stove on site. In the shop I can spend evenings and weekends and try different things with a full compliment of parts and tools at my disposal, including the internet. I don't always have all that stuff in the field. Not to mention that I don't always have a place, like a garage or shop, at the customers home and tearing down in the house is not a good idea. Of course, customers want it fixed TODAY. If I can do that, I do. It's not always possible. Some respect for my abilities as a tech are appreciated. To assume that I am some bumbling idiot who plans to steal from you is not going to help.

    Now, some tech are, in fact, stumbling idiots. I get that. But that does not make them a dishonest dealership. It just means they need to improve their abilities and techniques. If you help them do that they will likely become your ally and be very helpful in the future when your stove breaks again.

    I just don't understand why we have to propagate this "dealers are bad" idea here on hearth.com. Titles like this topic do just that. Choose better words. Okay, you've had a bad experience and want to share. You can choose different words.
  20. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

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    This statement makes you as bad as the folks that start the "my dealer is worse than your dealer" posts. Remember the customer is always right!! ;)

    May not feel comfortable sharing....I would throw you out through the window if you came into my house with that attitude !!

    That would be like a mechanic not hooking your brake lines back up because you didn't treat him correctly in his eyes. May not feel comfortable sharing...AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!! Did you forget that sharing the info is your freakin' job...I better stop thinking about this cause my blood pressure is boiling!
    heat seeker likes this.
  21. Jack Morrissey

    Jack Morrissey Feeling the Heat

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    Wow
  22. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

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    No, you're not right. Even if you were my customer I would not say you are right. You are allowed to believe as you wish. But that does not make you right.

    Your misunderstanding of my comments probably has to do with you not running a service business for thirty years. You are not automatically granted the right to to know what I do and do not know just because you bought a stove from me. Your only right is to expect me to fix it if I offer that service. I may not always know NOW what is wrong but I will figure it out, because I know how to do that. You don't. That is what you pay me for. To fix it. I know how to interpret schematics, manuals, parts lists and trouble-shooting guides. I can speak to manufacturer's techs and understand the language. I will figure it out.

    But I will not always tell you I do not know. Some things are better kept to yourself. I have learned this after many years in the service business. As it is, I am giving you an inside look at what a technician thinks. When I read here I get a good idea of how many users think. I don't have to share with you. I could just ignore the sometimes caustic remarks of users on this forum but I choose to share. You don't have to agree. But you're not right just because you're a customer.

    By the way, I would not work for you if your comments here are an indication of how you treat people. But you may not need technical help. Many people do. If you need help you had better treat your technician with respect. I'm not starving and I do't need to work for rude people.
  23. Harman Lover 007

    Harman Lover 007 Minister of Fire

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    ....has anyone seen my popcorn machine??? I think I'm going to need it.
    mikefrommaine and heat seeker like this.
  24. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Feeling the Heat

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    i got it here, grab a chair, lol! i'm sad that some feathers got ruffled but had a feeling this was gonna happen.
  25. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

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    I guess we just see things differently my friend...Glad you and your family are not starving and I am sure you are far from it! I also am not starving, although right now I am a little hungry. At this point in my life, I do work for the man as they say... Just yesterday, I had a company in New Castle, PA accept my 1.3 million dollar proposal to put in a new press. I will admit that if the owner's had been rude, I still would have bought them dinner and continued to kiss ass until they got me the signed purchase order. So call me a sell out.

    You would not have to tell me you don't know, when you loaded my stove on your truck and took it away with some BS line, I would know you didn't know what the problem was. Probably a good thing for both of us that I am not your customer!! Stay warm and I wish you 30 more years of success, but to keep this interesting...If I had 30 years experience (and I do) I would not be bragging that I could understand manufacterer's techs, I would hope I would be training the manufacturer's techs!! Done with this thread unless someone starts talking beer again!
    DexterDay likes this.

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