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How Your Harman Works -what your manual doesn't tell you..

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by lbcynya, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

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    Kinsman, Oh 44428 Brookfield, Oh 44403

    Much better.

    Eric

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  2. Scott T.

    Scott T. New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
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    Loc:
    Michigan
    I've had my Harman XXV since beginning of January 2013 & still struggle to get the stove to work efficiently. I clean the glass & within 15 to 20 minutes of starting a fire on auto my glass is sooted up. After a hour or two it has about a 1/3 of the glass sooted up. I try to go by the 1" ash rule but with same results. I smell the stove outside sometimes & it has a different smell than my other stove ( Cumberland 3700). My best fires are at 2 1/2 of the feedrate & 70 on room temp auto. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong? If I run on 4 like manual says I get hot coals being pushed into the ashpan.
  3. Justin M

    Justin M Feeling the Heat

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    Dec 22, 2008
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    Loc:
    Southbury, CT
    There is something wrong. I don't think it's the way that you are running it? What kind of pellets, and have you tried different ones? Are all of the holes in the burn pot clear? Have you done a dollar bill test on the door seal? Check for blockage in the exhaust path/venting?
  4. Scott T.

    Scott T. New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
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    Loc:
    Michigan
    I've tried 3 different type of pellets with the same results. The stove is only 2 weeks old but I did clean the firepot holes a few days ago & they were all clean. Haven't did the dollar bill between the door yet as we've been running it but the door is hard to shut (Very tight) so I don't think the door gasket is bad yet. Appreciate the suggestions!
  5. Trefix

    Trefix New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    48
    Loc:
    Lozere, France
    Hello.

    Accentra FS, my settings :

    - feed rate 3 / temp rate 3-3/4 (20°C ~ 68°F) / maximum distribution fan,
    - coming home after a week > 'stove temp + auto' during 4 hours for a quick and efficient heating,
    - snowy weather > 'room temp + auto' is the best mode, but gives a +/- 2.5°F room temp. (66 to 71°),
    - cold weather (night & day < 32°F) > 'room temp + manual' gives the best heating with few pellet (and few temp. variations),
    - extreamly cold weather > 'stove temp + auto'...
    'Room temp + auto' or 'room temp + manual' 7/24 needs ~33 pounds a day, for us, more with 'stove temp + auto'.

    I noticed ESP cleaning (I took down ES probe and rubbed it with 000 steel wool) needs to turn up a bit the temp setting.

    Au revoir.






    PS : After cleaning, select 'stove temp + auto' and the stove will light on even if room temp is too hight.
  6. thro9

    thro9 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
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    Great info, I have the Harman Hydroflex 60 boiler, anyone with any additional tips on it?
  7. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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    W Michigan
    Can you start another thread with pictures of your entire setup. This will get you access to the pro's for advice. Sounds like an intake/exhaust issue to me.
  8. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
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    Loc:
    W Michigan
    Good post on Harman's "new feature" to allow shutdown of the stove in the event of a power loss - with the right battery backup:
    http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-auto-shut-down-on-ups.103723/

    This is for post November 2010 stoves with the "E" series board. If you have an older stove, you'd need to buy an newer board or see if Harman would consider upgrading it...
  9. shellyf

    shellyf New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
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    Cleaning tip - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.

    Thank you more than you know! I have been suffering with soot all over my house every time I clean the stove... I could not be more excited about this tip!
  10. abrucerd

    abrucerd Member

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    Aug 22, 2007
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    Loc:
    Central MA
    General question: What settings should be used for maximum heat output? Stove temp set to highest? Or room temp in recovery? What about feed rate? I know raising it can be wasteful, but will it produce the maximum output?

    For example: let's say I've just finished cleaning my stove, but my house temp has dropped 10 degrees since I initiated shutdown. What setting will regain those 10 degrees the fastest?
  11. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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    I've actually found an even better way... Just open the door and turn the stove on (switch to manual) the combustion blower will run but not the distribution blower which doesn't need to run anyway. Shut it off, close the door, lid, etc. and turn it back on for normal operation.
  12. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    W Michigan
    If you have your feed rate set to an optimal level, as noted in the beginning of the thread, with a good pellet you'll reach ESP temps in the low to mid 400's range (think 500 is max) which should get things up to temp quickly. With Somersets, I can get to 445 with a feed rate of 2.5...:) If you want to push it you can turn up the feed rate and check for spilling pellets or smoke (incomplete combustion) which means you are "spinning your wheels". Remember, the ESP is in the exhaust, so it's measuring waste heat not just stove temperature.

    In stove temp mode, you'd need to set the temp knob to 7 in order to allow for max ESP temp.

    In room temp mode, the stove will always allow max ESP temp until the heat request is satisfied. Quality of pellet and feed rate will determine how close to max temp the ESP will see.
  13. Central NH

    Central NH New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
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    My XXV ran like that before I put in an OAK. Do you have an out side air kit?
  14. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    Nov 1, 2009
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    565
    Loc:
    Brimfield, MA
    I'd like to add that I was told by Harman that in the case of a pellet furnace at least, if the wall controller does not agree with a digital thermometer you have near the wall controller, do not slip the dial on the wall controller to get them to agree. You can use the "temp knob" that you would use in manual to trim the wall controller running in automatic.

    The temp knob has a "normal" setting that you run at in automatic. If that "normal" setting is off from the digital reading, you will see that the temp dial is labeled 1-2-3 normal 4-5-6. The 3 numbers below normal are -1 degree increments and the 3 number above are +1 degree increments from the wall controllers dial setting. So you can trim the temp setting by +/- 3 degrees.
  15. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    Brimfield, MA
    I found that once the edit capability expires, you can still click on edit and then click on "more options". When it opens, you can once again edit whatever is showing.
  16. MikeNH

    MikeNH Member

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    Loc:
    Temple, NH
    Anyone know of an online resource to find out what the dip switches on a control board do?
  17. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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    W Michigan
  18. Lugo Sanchez

    Lugo Sanchez New Member

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    Oct 30, 2013
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    1
    Loc:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm having trouble with my invincible pellet insert. Stove is not feeding enough pellets to maintain temp and stove shuts off after 15 minutes, tried in both modes, room and stove. Already replace ESP and Room sensor probes. Run test and everything is operating fine. Any Suggestions?
  19. Central NH

    Central NH New Member

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    Feb 24, 2013
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    How many times does your status light blink??? when it turns itself off
  20. gscreely

    gscreely Member

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    Central PA
    I have run my Harmans that way, and my conclusion is you do not save a lot of fuel. I imagine if you use it in the shoulder seasons it would save some fuel, but in the heart of the heating system just set it to stove temp and run it.

    Room temp does not save fuel either, because when the stove ramps up and down it does not run as efficiently. If efficiency is your goal - stove temp is your mode. Roomtemp is about comfort.
  21. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
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    544
    Loc:
    Fairbanks, Alaska.
    Maybe if you don't have an OAK.

    If you are running a OAK and run in manual mode, if your distribution blower is not running, you are idling pellets away, and putting cold air into your stove.

    Likewise, if you run in manual, and your distribution blower is not running, your heat is going out the flue. PERIOD.

    These stoves are convection heaters, not radiant heaters.

    In room temperature mode your distribution fan is going to run until there is no more heat to pull out of the stove instead of wasting it into the flue.

    I will burn an extra half bag+ a day in manual mode when it is very cold out. I also use more pellets daily than "most people", so I get to see a large variation in a single day. (3+ bags a day in -40s) 6 1/2 tons a year.

    Of course it is all opinion.
  22. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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    W Michigan
    While I value your experience, I can't say I agree with your opinion. With that said, I'm basing my statement on using an external thermostat with the stove set to manual in the heart of the heating season (shoulder season is always hit/miss). A warm stove is an efficient stove. Look at modern high-efficiency gas furnaces. Most are now dual stage and, in some cases, some are completely variable. This is to simply burn what is necessary to maintain the required temperature without letting ducting and structure cool down too much. Heating this mass back up to achieve equilibrium is inefficient. As I said, a warm stove is an efficient stove any way you slice it.

    Your first sentence suggests that some savings is gained by using a thermostat... It's also a given that you maintain a more even room temperature (comfort), so why is this not preferred? Savings + comfort is a win/win. For the record, I use a thermostat (igniter set to manual) for convenience, ease of use (for my family, less variables) and efficiency relative to stove and pellet consumption. Maintenance burn keeps the stove warm (efficient) while still putting need BTU's into the house, since we are ALWAYS losing heat. When the thermostat calls for heat, the stove ramps up to high burn, quickly and efficiently putting the necessary heat into the house to get the room temperature back up to the required temperature. This high burn is efficient (as long as no smoke is coming out of the exhaust) and helps keep the piping clean as opposed to idling or low burn all the time.

    "Just set it to stove temp and forget it" - While this seems to work for you, we can't ignore the facts that other forum members will want to rely on. Stove temp will give you fairly consistent pellet usage, but that's where the consistency ends... Warm days, you will overheat the room. Sunny days you could overheat the room. Cold days you will under heat the room. Windy days, you'll under heat the room. If the goal is efficiency, then overheating is a waste. Under heating doesn't serve the intended purpose... If you end up fiddling with the temperature nob based on what's going on outside, then you are the thermostat...which isn't efficient either.

    My case - Stove temp trying to keep in the low 70's = >1 bag a day of pellet consumption, external thermostat (set and forget at 72, +) will burn <1 bag a day. That's a well insulated, 1300 square foot basement, bleeding a small amount of heat to the 1800 square feet upstairs. It's pretty consistent. Down below 15 degrees, I will approach 1 full bag per 24 hours, maybe a touch more. Either way, the room averages 72... ;)
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
    Justin M likes this.
  23. MikeNH

    MikeNH Member

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    Loc:
    Temple, NH
    I've noticed that with my P61a, there's quiet a bit of radiant heat coming off the top and sides when it's in maintenance mode. It's enough to keep the room at a steady temp for hours at a time on a 20-30 degree day. I think this mode comes in quite handy when temps drop. The stove is already up to temp and when the thermostat calls for heat, the distribution fan ramps right up and the feed rate increases.

    I look at stove temp mode as "wood stove mode." It doesn't care what the room temp is, just like a wood stove. I think this comes in very handy for folks like my neighbor, who is heating an old farmhouse with a P68. She just wants to be as warm as possible and is making up for heat loss through her walls. For us in a 10 year old home, room temp works much better. Stove temp caused our living room to become too warm. It all depends on your situation and what you want from your stove. I bought mine for comfort and ease-of-use. Increased pellet use in "room temp manual" for me is an acceptable loss over the amount of oil I was going through. My stove - running the way I run it - will pay itself off in three years.
  24. THE ROOSTER

    THE ROOSTER Feeling the Heat

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    Loc:
    Home of Wild Turkey 101 & Lake Cumberland
    One question about these two, "do these replace the factory room sensor or work with it"? My factory sensor has gone bad, and I am thinking about going with one of these vs. ordering a factory replacement.
    Thanks
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  25. Justin M

    Justin M Feeling the Heat

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    Dec 22, 2008
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    Southbury, CT

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