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I NEED SOME MEASUREMENTS/PRINTS FOR PAPA BEAR STOVE

Post in 'Fisher Stove Information, Parts, History and More' started by BCOWANWHEELS, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. BCOWANWHEELS

    BCOWANWHEELS New Member

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    GUYS I,AM looking for some prints so i can make me a large wood stove at least the papa bear size. I,am a retired welder/fabricator and like everybody else money is real tight and i need to heat about 3500 to 4000 sq. feet with wood. i have a copy of a King Model 628 Wood Stove and idoes ok but i need a bigger stove. if somebody could help me with pictures,measurements and or prints so i could make a good stove I,d really appreciate it. materials isnt a problem here. i dont want a glass front stove and it must be for 6" flew. thanks fellas.
    old man bob in tn.
    bcowanwheels@aol.com
    1-423-384-8938

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  2. DianeB

    DianeB Feeling the Heat

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    this link to a manual gives some measurments but for the gramma and grandpa
    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/8529a99d5734895193b2df8a6249feb7/
  3. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    No, the manual above is for double door stoves that requires an 8 inch outlet. They are not as efficient as a Papa Bear. That's why he wants a 6 inch stove, or he has a 6 inch chimney requiring that size stove. Cut size of each part of a Papa I or II is not a problem. You're not going to heat 3500 to 4000 sf with a 6 inch stove until you move closer to the Equator.

    Craigslist TN is one of my favorite pass times.
    http://nashville.craigslist.org/bar/3533229086.html
    nashville craigslist.jpg Scary down there it is.
    pen likes this.
  4. BCOWANWHEELS

    BCOWANWHEELS New Member

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    I have access to a brake that can bend up to 1/2" plate and 1/4" and 5/16" isnt a problem. i was thinking about buying a piece of 1/4" hot rolled 4' x 12' then bending each side up then buy a 4'x8' x1/4" hr to make the front and back parts, 1 door on the front. my chimney is for 6" flue pipe connection so i,am stuck with that demension. i live on top of a hill so chimney draft isnt a problem. i figure 500.00 in materials should make a good stove and you cant buy a used one for that plus go get it then catch up all the maint on it. i have a ashley insert in my up stairs but i dont like to use it because i,ve already got a couple tiny burn spots on my hardwood floors from wood poping when door is open. sure wish i'd ave made a stone floor out so far in front of f/p. oh well live and learn. gotta get a proven design stove now to build. surely you stove fellas can hook up a old fella that enjoys building his stuff. gives me something to do .
    thanks
    bob in tn.
  5. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    how about a parts list that would be the width of a gma and the depth of a papa? can you get the doors? It will work with a 6" if you have a good chimney. I have done it.
    coaly likes this.
  6. BCOWANWHEELS

    BCOWANWHEELS New Member

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    ALL HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. AS FOR DOOR I,LL JUST MAKE IT OUT OF STEEL PLATE LIKE THE ORIGINAL MODEL WAS.
  7. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    I called it a great gma, I made it or combined a gma and papa to make this stove. It will heat approx 3500 sq ft in homes it is in. No rating in a lab was done.
    top 5/16 is better but 1/4 will work 251/2 x39
    sides 1/4 24 x32 need 2
    back 1/4 23 1/2 x 24
    bottom 1/4 23 1/2 x 31 3/4
    top front 1/4 is 3 x 23 1/2
    bottom front 1/4 4 x 23 1/2
    front sides 1/4 11 x 2 3/4 need 2
    baffle 1/4 4x 23

    3/16 angle 1 1/2 2- 24" front legs
    2 30" rear legs
    1 16" brick clip rear
    2 24" brick clip sides

    If you take the top and measure in from the front 18 13/16 and bend a 68 degree angle and measure in from the back and do the same it will have the correct bend for the top.
    If you have issues or questions send a pm. I have the step by step procedure for building a stove. I have handles and hindge pins. If you want to build an ash pan like the original fisher I can talk you through it too.

    Let me know if I can help.
  8. BCOWANWHEELS

    BCOWANWHEELS New Member

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    NOW WERE TALKIN, SPEC'S...... IF YOUR IN N.E. GA. YOU CANT BE FAR FROM KINGSPORT, TN.
  9. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    about 200 miles, if you want the papa cut size it would be
    top 20 x39
    sides 24 x 32
    back 24 x17 1/2
    bottom 31 3/4 x 17 1/2
    front 17 1/2 x3
    front 17 1/2 x 4
    front sides 11 x 3 1/2
    baffel 17 1/4 x 4
    legs would be the same
    top would bend the same
    brick clips sides the same
    back brick clip 12 "

    basic steps to building this
    1. have all the parts ready before starting the welding
    2. on a clean welding table clamp the 4" front piece and using a framing square and clamps put the front sides on each end of this. tack
    put the 3' on top and tack when it is square. the front assembled will be 17 1/2' wide if you are building the papa weld all the parts on both sides keeping it clamp to prevent warping. Grind one of the sides of the weld smooth. use care with the grinder. you will be able to see some of this in your finished stove.
    3 put a side on the table and take the top and when the side is flat on the table take the top and put the top in place. put about 3/4' of the top past the the side rear. You want more hanging over the front. mark the side where the top drops down into it and repeat the same for the other side. If you leave 3/4 on one side do it for both or you will have quite a gap to fill ,
    I am going to post and continue. I do not want to do all this and loose it in space when about complete.
  10. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    4. cut out the area of the sides you marked set them off the table
    5. take you grinder and clean the table top. any weld slag on the table will scratch the top and other pieces.
    6 take 2 pieces of 1/4 about the size of the baffel and lay them on the table. put the bottom on these . the pieces should not be so big you can see them it is used for a spacer for later you can weld the bottom to the rest of the parts
    6. take the back and holding it upright line up the matching widths on the bottom and tack the back to the bottom
    7. take one side and line up the side to the bottom. the side will stick past the bottom in the back and front. about center of the back. the side should be the same height as the back. tack the side to the bottom only in the back half of the side do not tack in the front. do the same for the other side.
  11. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    8. tac the back to the sides after you line them up. they should split center and be flush on top.
    9 Weld the inside of the box where the back and sides join ...only here
    10 take 2 fire brick set them on the bottom and up the back. take the 12" angle and put it on top of the brick. Center the back. raise the angle about 1/4" and angle it towards you and tac.
    11. do the same for the sides.
    12 use 2 2" or so angle iron and the baffel. put the baffel above the rear brick clip 1 1/2' level and point the baffle towards the top where it starts going up and tack. put the clips under the baffle on both front sides and tack. Weld both the clips and baffle to the back of the stove.
    13. take the assembed front and put it in place. the sides should spread to allow the front to fit tight to the bottom. flush the top where you cut for the top and the bottom let run wild. it will not be a factor. but keep the front flush with the sides tac now weld from the top to the bottom both sides.
    14 if you are installing channel for the front install it now and weld it up. weld on the inside of the stove one it looks better and 2 welds will not interfer with the door
  12. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    15. Grind the sides that you cut just to dress them up for installing the top. this is loud and will hurt your ears. it does not have to be perfect
    16. now put your top on. adjust it where the over hang is correct on the sides back and front. When you do this it will be amazing if it justs fits just right .
    pick the best fit whether it top back or top front and tac. it is better to tac it inside the stove but with a papa and the depth out side is fine. just keep the tack small. Where it did not fit as well take bar clamps and pull it in place. the smaller the joints the smaller the weld and the better the stove looks
    do not tack where the legs will be.
    17. now watch your feet and slide the box toward you and lift it up so you can see the botttom of the stove. the spacers you used will fall off the table now and they hurt the top of your feet. :)
    18 take the 24 inch angle and slide until it touchs the top these are the front legs. Make sure it is tight to the top or the stove will wobble. make sure no tacks or slag is in the way either. tack in place to the top and inside the angle at the bottom
    19 now put the stove on its top and position it to where you can install the 30" legs tack at the top and bottom not the sides or front you will see this again make sure all is out of your way for a smooth install
  13. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    20. now put the stove where you can go in the front opening. weld the top to the sides inside the stove. about a 2" weld. this is to prevent leaks at the leg and if you wait on this step the box gets very hot to do this later.
    21 now weld the top all the way around, and the bottom all the way. weld the legs to the bottom also inside the angle.
    22 weld the front to the channel that you could not do earlier.
    22. sign your name to the bottom and date it and you are done with what we called a box.
    If you put the stove on its side and grabbing the legs slide it towards you. you can lower the stove and the top will hook the table and down you go. if you have help it would be better for this step.

    add to step ten posted earlier to put several 1" welds on the brick clips

    Now this is how is was done in our factory. One person saw the prints, built the stove and came up with the method to tell all the welders. I know there are precise notes etc on the drawings and Coley can add those. None of the welders on the line saw them. It would slow things down to much. I can copy prints if you are precise but it is costly to do that. Just remember the 2 spacer pieces hurt the feet and taking the stove off the table can hurt you too. I have put many on the ground. If you hit them wrong it can bend the legs and that sucks to have a second or something to fix. In the time it took to type this I could have it all welded up. 45 min to an hour with all the parts ready is normal to do this.
    I hope Coaly saves these posts :) I do not want to do it again. lol If you decide to build it I will add the finishing part later. flueing, ash fender, hanging the door and brick, grinding and painting.

    Good luck, you should be good to go now.
  14. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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  15. BCOWANWHEELS

    BCOWANWHEELS New Member

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    thank you so much ! would by chance wouldnt have and doors and related components for sale would you ?
    bob
  16. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    I have hindges, hindge pins, handles, no more draft caps and spring handles for the 1/2" rod are not in great shape. I have barrels of other sizes of spring handles.
    Before you start the stove you should decide what you are going to do about the door. I have some HB solid, Hb glass and grandma doors. I have some Gma 4 doors. You may want to consider making your own door. Or you could find a stove that is trashed but has a good door. It is hard to find a trashed Fisher tho. My doors have been saved and they are the last known new doors out there. So they would not be cheap. If you have a stove shop near you and they sell a solid door stove you may be able to buy a door from them. I would not buy a glass door for a homemade stove since you would have to incorperate an air wash for the doors. The stove parts list would change. I have the Gma 3 air wash slides for the stove front. They did ok but there are better air wash methods today. If you find a door that does not fit lets say it is to wide. Then you can make the top, back and bottom wider and you are set. the front would have to be custom sized, which if you are a metal worker that would not be a problem.
    With all this said the ball is in your court. You may want to also check with you insurance. Most do not want to hear you are wanting to install a home made stove, or a stove with out a clearance tag on it either. So I do not want to suggest you do this and you get it done and can not install it. When I sell a refurbished stove and tell people this most have no plans on telling their insurance, that is their call.
    Let me know what you decide to do. I have pictures of each step I discribed above. I did this on the last stove I built from start to finish.
  17. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Feeling the Heat

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    BCOWANWHEELS, I have over 30+ years in the welding /fabrication field, and you got some great advice above but "just a thought" why don't you find a Grandpa bear and enlarge it?. There is lots you can do with one and you'll already have a platform to work with. If you have to have the 6" flue, no problem, cut out the 8", plate in and weld up hole then find some 6" pipe or roll some flat stock to size and weld it in where you want. It seems like you want a project _g but my thought is you may find a stove reasonably cheap and have something start with. Good luck on your venture;).
  18. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    I guess in my opinion it would be easier to build a new one than to try and modify a used one. No seams from expanding etc. But yes you could make one bigger but I think appearance would be like trying to paint a car at home. It may look ok from a distance but the closer you get the worst it looks
  19. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Feeling the Heat

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    Agreed with building new:), you can make it and design it to any liking. I was just thinking along the lines of time and $$$. I'm never against a good project:cool: and go at them with a challenge. It seemed there may be a financial limit involved and thought may be an easier route to go.
  20. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    There is someone building a stove. I said I would add finish steps. I have a post about installing a flue which I will try to find and do a copy and paste and this is where we chipped and ground the edges. I answered specific questions to him so I will fill in the gaps.

    Using the above to build the box at this point you are ready to finish it. Hang the doors, flue it, brick it, add gasket and paint. There is no order you have to follow. This is what I did:
    1. I would flip the stove up where the door opening was sticking up. When I did this I put a 2x4 on the floor where the top rested on it. It made it easier to pick up when done.
    2. I put a popciscle stick in the channel used for the door. this gave enought room for gasket and glue.
    3. Put you door/doors on the stove. get them straight and all gaps looking even.
    4. mark the top for the location of the door that is the locking door you will used this later.
    5. using 1 1/2' x 1/2" flat bar cut pieces that are long enough to support the door and past it 1/4" or so. Round the end stick in the room.
    6. using soapstone mark the hole for the hindge pin. put the soap stone through the hinge on the door and put the support how it is to be welded. Mark the hole.
    7. drill the hole for the hinge pins you are using. Install the pins through the door and support check to see all fits correct.
    8. tack the hinge supports in place after checking to be sure nothing has moved. Check again after tacking. Then weld them up to the front of the stove.
    9. Open the doors finish welding hinges if needed. Where you marked the top or side depending if this is a double door or single weld a tapered piece inside the stove to catch the locking handle.
    10. Weld the ash fender to the stove. Making sure it does not interfere with the door. How to make the original ash fender will be posted next.

    to be continued
  21. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    to make 1 ash shelf the best thing is after the legs are on your stove, measure between the legs. cut a piece of 1/4" plate 6" x your measurement less 1 1/2". Note the sides will angle approx 22.5 degree angle from the stove to the front. round the two corners that will be in the room. Not a lot.
    using the 1" channel used for the door front. estimate the distance you will need and add a couple inches.
    find the center of the channel and the centr of the ash pan. line the two marks up and push it tight to the channel and tack. tack again at eack of the 2 front corners.
    Heat the channel with a torch and bend it being careful not to distort it. I use a bar clamp to bring it in tight and make sure the bottom of the ash pan is tight. tack. You are welding and tacking the bottom of the ash pan. When you turn it over it should be flush and neat. no gaps showing.
    trim the extra channel and weld it to your stove

    11. put the stove back on its legs.

    12. We used chipping chisles to get welding slag off from around the top, door hinges and vent. A 6" grinder on the flat part of the edge of the top to remove the shear sharp edges. We rounded the 4 corners of the top and then under the top and on the edges of the top this is to remove all sharp edges while moving it in the house or it being a safey issue after it is installed. Be careful not to hit the flat top with the grinder. Those marks do not come out easy.

    I will continue with the flue when I find what I did earlier.
  22. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    1. measure in from the top to the back of the stove. Add 1/2" to this measurement. Mark the new hole with soap stone or something that will stay while torching. I always used the pipe and centered it left to right and double check the dimension from the back. tip I always started at the back ,angle the torch to the center of cut. It is to be sure to clear the acutual back of the stove. I always left the line when traceing the pipe, if not it will be to big of a hole.
    2. After tourching the hole check the fit. I always prefered to have to drive the pipe in with a shop hammer than it to just fall through. It made easier welding.
    3. We used 1 1/2" angle scrap to use as a spacer to judge the height of the new pipe. putting it on the stove top and tack the pipe to hold in place.
    4. weld it up.
    note:

    2. There are all kinds of 6" pipe. be sure it is 6"od. with out seams. 1/8" thick. a 4"-6" length is adequate. If you put the wrong pipe in it will be a real headach to attach your black stove pipe. These required a double skirted adapter when hooking up your stove.
    3. If you can find 6" Id pipe with a 1/4" wall you will not need the adapter. A short piece of this may be harder to find but worth the effort. These were used on the later model stoves and a 2" length is all you need. this would be put on the stove top, centered and weld the inside of the pipe to the stove top. Then torch it to provide the exhaust hole.

    good luck with your project. Remember if you build a stove without proper tags and testing your insurance probably will not cover it. If you cut corners, use smaller metal or are not a quailified welder you can be putting yourself, your family and personal belongings in harms way. I have posted this information because I feel like many things if someone does not how to build these stoves in the future the information will be lost. thanks to Coaly for showing me that I was not the only person that is interested in fishers. What amazes me is I was involved working on these and Coaly know more about the buisness etc than I do. :) I hope Coaly can move or title this information where it can be found. I photgraphed the step by step process on this last stove I did. I have had trouble posting pictures in the past here. I do not know why.

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