I had a Vermont Castings small winter warmer professionally installed 4 years ago. Chimney sweep is telling me liner needs to be insulated.......true or no? I have it cleaned annually to avoid a lot of build-up. Thanks!
Insulated liner for fireplace insert?
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Consensus on here when this comes up seems to be that insulated liners are very helpful if not completely necessary on exterior chimneys. Completely necessary on questionable chimneys that may not be in perfect shape. Helpful with better draft, easier sweeping. But if your liner is already in place, it would either need to be pulled to be insulated with a blanket, or replaced with a new liner, or you would have to use pour in insulation (vermiculite) which some folks on here find messy/icky/prone to soaking up leaks and etc. Did the sweep think this would just be better for you, or was there an actual problem he was referring to?
He is saying it is required by code, but both the installer and vendor say nonsense. I am currently waiting for an answer from the building inspector, but it was installed without a permit so I am trying to keep it on the DL. Installer said it (permit) was not required. I have had no problems with it, and the chimney was rebuilt from the roofline up about 2 years ago. Problem is I am not sure if chimney itself is lined or not.....need to get back to the mason for that info. I wish I had been a bit more educated then, and would have known what questions to ask!
Thanks for your help!
Thanks for your help!
- Oct 30, 2009
- 232
Or he is looking to get paid to install it. As a general rule of thumb, they help in pretty much every way. I will be insulating a Regency Insert chimney liner on an interior chimney.
If your chimney is not 100% up to code then yes it is required. Sweep is trying to look out for your best interest, I am sure something alerted him while up there cleaning, is this an exterior chimney? More than likely he sees a lot of creosote buildup and an insulated liner will help with this.
- Oct 30, 2009
- 232
Chimney is actually exterior to the house, but passes through porch......funky old NE colonial, circa 1920. Sweep has not yet actually looked at it.......told me over the phone that these inserts need insulated liners. Spoke with building inspector this a.m.....she said they defer to manufacturer recs, which do not specify insulated liner. Sweep also told me furnace replacement requires liner, but inspector and fire chief said no...not true if it is a replacement. As an aside, I will be getter an exterior clean out door installed for the furnace flue, which runs alongside in same chimney, so I guess I will find out if the chimney is lined. Chimney is approx 40' with a 90 degree turn for the furnace pipes. I assume if one flue is lined, then so will be the other. My main concern right now, besides avoiding a fire, is homeowner's coverage. Don't want to find out after the fact that something voided my policy.
Thanks!
Thanks!
The fact that your stove was installed without a permit is the bigger concern regarding homeowners coverage. Permit + subsequent inspection = happy insurance company.
Now regarding the liner. Like everyone said, find out why your sweep is recommending it. I do not believe it is code, and if your inspector is saying it is up to the manufacturer then i think you are ok without one. If you had excessive creosote build up or poor draft, then yes insulate the liner. My situation with my insert is i have an interior chimney with stainless flex all the way up, about 25'. Not insulated, and i would say that i have too much draft, so insulating the liner would be overkill for me.
Now regarding the liner. Like everyone said, find out why your sweep is recommending it. I do not believe it is code, and if your inspector is saying it is up to the manufacturer then i think you are ok without one. If you had excessive creosote build up or poor draft, then yes insulate the liner. My situation with my insert is i have an interior chimney with stainless flex all the way up, about 25'. Not insulated, and i would say that i have too much draft, so insulating the liner would be overkill for me.
Unless the masonry chimney structure passes a Level II inspection (meeting NFPA 211 guidelines) then the liner must be insulated. Such an inspection would require visually inspecting the masonry structure from top to bottom where it comes in contact with the house, verifying all clearances are met. Also would need to verify the proper air gap from the clay tiles to the masonry block, as well as the integrity of the clay tiles themselves. If any one thing does not pass, it fails.
Without insulation the SS liner serves only to reduce your flue size, it adds absolutely no safety factor if you were to have a chimney fire. A 2000F chimney fire would heat up all the masonry so much that if there is combustibles up against it, lets say in the attic, your roof would probably catch on fire. Furthermore, all liners I have seen, with no insulation you are required to have 1" spacers on the liner to keep it from resting right up against the clay tiles. This is rarely done.
Adding the insulation, the liner should then meet UL1777 specs, which allows the insulated liner to be touching the clay tiles, and also allows the masonry structure as a whole to be touching combustibles.
So, knowing all this, as a dealer it is far easier to just insulate every liner we do and not have to worry about anything.
You might notice I used words like "should" and "may". This is because each liner system is tested independently and could have different requirements. For the most part they are all the same, but each mfg has their own instructions that should be followed.
I think your installer needs to read some install manuals, NFPA code books, and the UL1777 listing.
Without insulation the SS liner serves only to reduce your flue size, it adds absolutely no safety factor if you were to have a chimney fire. A 2000F chimney fire would heat up all the masonry so much that if there is combustibles up against it, lets say in the attic, your roof would probably catch on fire. Furthermore, all liners I have seen, with no insulation you are required to have 1" spacers on the liner to keep it from resting right up against the clay tiles. This is rarely done.
Adding the insulation, the liner should then meet UL1777 specs, which allows the insulated liner to be touching the clay tiles, and also allows the masonry structure as a whole to be touching combustibles.
So, knowing all this, as a dealer it is far easier to just insulate every liner we do and not have to worry about anything.
You might notice I used words like "should" and "may". This is because each liner system is tested independently and could have different requirements. For the most part they are all the same, but each mfg has their own instructions that should be followed.
I think your installer needs to read some install manuals, NFPA code books, and the UL1777 listing.
I don't think the liner needs to be insulated to pass code, but you should have pulled a permit. I did and it cost $75. The inspector came over, read the manual, checked the clearances, and signed off. Never set foot on the roof or looked in the chimney. They just want the permit money and to very that you are not a complete idiot.
jtp10181 said:
+1. If you can't confirm a 2 inch air gap all the way around your existing internal brick chimney (2 inches of air between it and anything combustible) then you need to take measures that will allow you to reduce the air gap requirement. Eaqch liner has different ways of doing that, with the most common being 1/2 inch wrap of 8 lb density ceramic fibre blanket.
Follow the instructions that came with your liner system.
For more, read the link in my signature on chimney liner install best practices, then print it and give a copy to your installer and dealer, so they can learn something.
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