Insulation and any general advice for vintage fisher insert

[vt-new-fp]

Hi -- I have just bought an old/used fisher fireplace insert (I can't find a model number or other info, just a plate that seems like braille in the front). I'll be installing it in a heatolator fireplace -- metal lining installed over masonry. I have a 8x11" clay lined dedicated flue which is clean and sound. I'm not putting in a stainless liner. (there's a second flue for propane water heater and oil furnace, which I hope not to use).

A friend used a cip saw to bust a hole in the metal of the heatolator to get a stovepipe up there. My insulation related questions are:

1. is a regular black 8'' stove pipe okay, or should i get something insulated, flexible or double walled?
2. Is it okay to stuff some insulation around the stove pipe to block the flue above the smoke shelf or do I need a metal plate (or something else more substantial) -- if insulation is okay -- loose batting or insulation board?
3. The instruction manual from this web site says to use "1/2 thick by 2" wide fiberglass insulation" behind the metal plates that seal the insert to the chimney -- is that loose batting or foam board? And is it all around it to make a thick seal? The "2 inch wide" spec is what's throwing me.

Are there other things I should be asking?

Thanks!

 

[bholler]

You atleast need to run a section of stainless liner from the stove into the first clay liner. That stainless then needs to have a positive connection to that clay. You also need a sheet metal block off plate installed. This is what is required by minimum code. If you do this as long as the chimney is built to code with the required clearances from the outside of the masonry to any combustible material the install should be reasonably safe. But the stove will work much better and the install will be much safer with an insulated liner running from the stove out the top of the chimney.

 

[coaly]

A stainless liner is required.
The manual was printed for use in 1980 when installing an Insert was legal to simply slide into place using the existing larger fireplace chimney. Time has proven a flue larger than the stove outlet allows flue gasses to expand and cool causing excessive creosote and fire danger. So codes now require a direct connected liner from Insert all the way to the top. (or as suggested to connect to existing flue which sometimes is difficult to impossible) Connection can be done with a "Boot". The insulation gasket material was to seal the fireplace front block off plate to prevent indoor air from leaking into the low pressure area of chimney flue. This not only cools the flue gasses more with dilution air, but ALL air must go through the firebox to get up the chimney, not around the firebox, preventing oxygen from getting to the fire.

Regular black pipe will rust and rot out quickly, hence the reason stainless is used inside the existing flue as a liner. You can get stainless pipe sections just like black pipe if it is a straight run. Many types of insulation, loose or poured in place for liners.

The cost for 8 inch may be prohibitive and most new inserts require 6 inch, so weigh the possibility of installing a 6 inch insulated liner (which in most cases works very well with your Insert) in case you want to go to a newer Insert. It is technically not legal to reduce pipe or flue size smaller than the appliance outlet. (but it isn't legal to install an appliance without a UL tag in most states under the ICC Family of Codes either) The reason they work so well with a reduced flue is they were designed to be used with the existing oversize fireplace flue, so were designed to allow more heat up with the larger 8 inch outlet. A more efficient insulated chimney normally makes up for the reduction in diameter. A larger diameter doesn't create more draft, it has more capacity as well as needing more heat to be left up, decreasing stove efficiency. Don't be afraid to put the money into the chimney, it is the engine that drives the stove. Any stove will work with a good chimney, no stove will work with a poor one.

All good questions, it's better to ask before you do.

 

[vt-new-fp]

I had it installed today by a chimney guy. He put in a 15 foot, 8" stainless liner (so it goes about halfway up the chimney and if/when I have more money, I can install all the way up with the liner if needed/wanted) and all new firebricks (as there were none with it when I bought the stove). We're having a hot spell in VT, so I won't be burning for a couple of days. I looked around on here and couldn't find any tips for optimal burning in the fisher insert, so I'd love any tips (I'm used to running an old Temp-Wood).

Also, my fireplace is so huge that the metal plates that came with the insert don't actually close it off/seal it in the fireplace. Chimney guy said it was fine to run without those plates and gave me a name of a guy who could make new ones. It's in a heatolator, so there's metal all around the back and sides of the stove. Any thoughts on what purpose the metal plates serve in the insert install?

 

[bholler]

I had it installed today by a chimney guy. He put in a 15 foot, 8" stainless liner (so it goes about halfway up the chimney and if/when I have more money, I can install all the way up with the liner if needed/wanted) and all new firebricks (as there were none with it when I bought the stove). We're having a hot spell in VT, so I won't be burning for a couple of days. I looked around on here and couldn't find any tips for optimal burning in the fisher insert, so I'd love any tips (I'm used to running an old Temp-Wood).

Also, my fireplace is so huge that the metal plates that came with the insert don't actually close it off/seal it in the fireplace. Chimney guy said it was fine to run without those plates and gave me a name of a guy who could make new ones. It's in a heatolator, so there's metal all around the back and sides of the stove. Any thoughts on what purpose the metal plates serve in the insert install?

Did he do a block off plate or seal the stainless to the clay? Did he do a full inspection of the system

 

[vt-new-fp]

Hi -- I'm asking about the metal plates that surround the stove on the outside and seal it to the mantel -- I'll upload a photo this weekend. My hearth is so large that the plates don't reach the mantel.

 

[bholler]

Hi -- I'm asking about the metal plates that surround the stove on the outside and seal it to the mantel -- I'll upload a photo this weekend. My hearth is so large that the plates don't reach the mantel.

Yes i know what you are talking about. But what i am asking about determines if you install is up to code an safe. If installed correctly that face plate is just cosmetic.

 

[vt-new-fp]

Oh, I don't know the answer to that. I know whatever he did is up to code in VT because he checked the regulations and said he wouldn't do an install the way my friend suggested he do it.

 

[bholler]

Oh, I don't know the answer to that. I know whatever he did is up to code in VT because he checked the regulations and said he wouldn't do an install the way my friend suggested he do it.

Look inside the fireplace is there a plate around the liner sealing it off? Did he run a camera through the chimney to inspect it? Did he look at the whole height of the chimney including in the attic to check for clearances?