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Is this stove safe?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Wilson, May 11, 2006.

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  1. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

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    http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_2053_2053

    First post here and I'm new to wood stoves. I've been thinking of getting a stove for next winter and this pot belly stove really caught my eye. I like the old timey look. Coal is cheap here also. However after doing a search on this site I found a few threads that were not so kind fo Vogelzang. The problem seemed to be with the box stoves... they're not able to control the how hot the fire burns.....it just ran wide open untill it over heated and cracked apart. I had a chance to see this pot belly stove up close today at a local shop and it looked pretty well made and there are atleast 3 places on it to control the amount of air coming in.

    The description says its made to hold 40# of coal for an 8 hour burn. That seems like a bold statement from the manufactor if there were any problems with the stove overheating.

    I also found this in the Q n A part of the site:

    http://www.hearth.com/search/art.php?rec=1130

    Someone asking about buying a pot belly stove and the Vogelzang is recommended.

    So if anyone has an opinion or has ever owned this stove I'd like to hear from you.

    Thnaks

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  2. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy New Member

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    Volgelzangs are cheap imported cast iron stoves. They dont have any clean burn technology, they pollute, and they dont use fuel very efficiently. But what more do you want for a 350 dollar stove. They do work, they will heat, thats just a cheap imitation of a old potbelly. I think a old potbelly would be better quality.
  3. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy New Member

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    they also have huge clearances, a large flue collar, which means if you dont already have a chimney your going to spend 5 times that installing it. Can you tell im a fan? maybe someone else will have a better opinion.
  4. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    You should be asking your local building official if he will allow the installation of a stove that is
    "NOTE: This stove is NOT a UL listed stove" a direct cut and paste from its installation manual.

    To me large red warning signs should be jumping out at you "NOTE: This stove is NOT a UL listed stove"


    actual literature from its advertisment
    "Ideal for garages, hunting camps, lodges and more"

    Worthy on comment: Note no mention of it being suitable for installation in your primary residence.
    Second note, I guess they do not know the NFPA 211 codes,however they refference them in their installation instructions
    The NFPA 211 expresidly prohibits soild fuel burning appliance installed in garage locations.

    Prime example of false or miss leading advertising, "Meets or exceeds EPA requirements."

    It then tells you in the installation owner's manual it is EPA exempt. As you might guess I an not a fan of these death boxes

    Code requirement to all appliances to be labled and listed

    "LISTED and LISTING: Terms referring to
    equipment which is shown in a list published by an
    approved testing agency qualified and equipped
    for experimental testing and maintaining an
    adequate periodic inspection of current
    productions and whose listing states that the
    equipment complies with nationally recognized
    standards

    ( UL) in the case of wood stoves
  5. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

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    So is it safe?
  6. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy New Member

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    it hasnt been tested for saftey. thats what elk is saying. non listed means non tested. I dont think its going to melt down or anything in your living room, but i would refer to all the nfpa 211 rules and then some.
    You can google NFPA211 and read all about it. Also like elk said call your building inspector first and make shure you can install a non listed appliance.
  7. Shane

    Shane Minister of Fire

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    Or you could just buy a Dutcwest/Century for around 450 that is UL listed and EPA approved & has reasonable clearances. They just don't have that old time look. If your insistant on cast iron then step up a couple hundred more for a small dutchwest cat or non-cat. I don't think you'll get anyone here that will say that the Vogelzang is worth doing anything with other than use as a spitoon or a garden planter.
  8. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

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    Hey elk, I think that is one of your best Vogelzgang stove posts ever. Your tone is measured, your facts specifically pointed to the questioner and their issue, and you only use the words 'death box' one time. ;)

    ... hahahaha. I'm sorry, I'm laughing just writing this. I hope you are too. :gulp:
  9. babalu87

    babalu87 New Member

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    NO!

    Its not UL approved its not safe
    It is a pain in the ass to cut firewood for, max log length is about 10-12 inches
    200,000 BTU?
    How long did they run the test or better yet how red was the stove and how many things did they burn down?

    They answered the question, thats not a recommendation
  10. ourhouse

    ourhouse Minister of Fire

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    NO!!!!!!
  11. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Buying a and running a Vogelzang reminds me of Clint Eastwood movie Dirty Harry.
    The final scene,the bad guy is in the river.Right in front of him is his gun,he is thinking about reaching for it. Then Dirty Harry announces in all the excitement, I don’t remember if I fired 5 or 6 shots. You are staring down the most powerful hand gun in the world, it will plain blow your head off. Go ahead punk reach for it do you feel lucky make my day Blam!!!! as blood spatters everywhere.
    Running a Zogelzang is the same proposition do you feel lucky go ahead make your day
  12. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

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    Thanks for all the info. I now understand that the stove is not UL Listed. But short of "melt down or anything in your living room" what are some other things that can go wrong? I mean if it will hold a fire and exhaust the smoke and not break in half what else is it supposed to do?

    Like I said I'm new to stoves. I'm from Florida originaly. Most of my life winter was 2 weeks long. I now live in a place that has a real winter from Thanksgiving to Groundhog Day.

    Has anyone bought a stove from Lowes or Home Depot?

    Elk....I dont think Clint killed the bad guy in that one. I remember the speach and the bad guy not going for his gun and asking "I gots to know" and Clint points the gun at him and pulls the tirgger and it just clicks..
  13. berlin

    berlin New Member

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    wilson, i think your best bet would be to buy an inexpensive stove out of the paper or off ebay, but something that is actually built well, vogelzang is not. Their casting is not high quality and likely could crack etc. if used often, thier intended use on cast stoves is occasional such as for hunting camp etc. You can get some good pre-epa airtights, listed or unlisted doesn't matter, most older stoves are built very well, off ebay etc for around $200 that will be far better and more durable than that cast vogelzang.
  14. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    I may have confused the many Clint movies for that I appoligise. But my point is still the same, they are dangerous to the newbie burner. As an inspector, I do not permit stoves not Ul listed Too many incidents reviewing what can go wrong forced me to make this decision. I mean incidents with a lot of guys in helmets and black rain coats with large red trucks everwhere. If you lived in eastern ma. I would be working with you to make a safe decision. If you PM me I and near Pitts there is a EPA program you might qualify for. The EPA stoves Englanders at home depot are ul and Epa listed and far safer and superior than what you originally asked about. Pm me you location and i will look into your alternatives . To me, foolish money $350 plus shipping, would be spent for a death trap. Everbody here wants to help you make a safe wise decision. None believe the Volegzang registers in this category
  15. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    I have so much practice condemming this pieces of sh-- I have it perfected and I am LOL
  16. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy New Member

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    In short, besides being a P.O.S., it will burn 5 times as much wood as a epa stove. It will emit tons of particulates in the atmosphere, it will make your neighbors hate you when your smoke is rolling in there bedroom window, its bad for the enviroment, its cheaply made, not to mention since its not listed the company has no libablity for what damages it causes, and your homeowners insurance would want to know if you have a non listed stove installed. If your house burns down your on your own. Your getting good advice here, buy a used listed stove, any stove besides they one your looking at. ANd if you can avoid it, buy a stove from a reputable dealer in your area, that doenst include home depot or lowes. my .02
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    On the safety side you have to wonder why VZ has been making that stove for so many years and hasn't either tried or been able to get a UL listing. Lots of their other stoves are UL listed so what is wrong with this one that they can't run it through a test facility and get a safety listing?

    As to EPA certification it is EPA exempt because, according to the EPA, VZ submitted a statement to them that it emitted too many particulates to qualify as a certified stove. It is a stove whose design hasn't changed to incorporate anything learned about sold fuel heaing efficiency or safety in the last 150 years. Nobody on the planet can tell you if the stove is "safe". They can and are telling you that the chances of a dangerous situation arising with it are greater than with virtually any of the listed and approved stoves on the market today. I used a VZ barrel stove in my basement for a couple of years. Because of the inability to control the burn rates and tendency to overfire I finally hauled it outside and made a smoker out of it. I could never bring myself to go to sleep in the house with a fire in the thing.

    By the way, in the Eastwood movie he let the first guy live but as Elk says, he blew away the one at the end of the flick. Inspector Callahan could just as well have been talking about wood stoves when he said "A man has just got to know his limitations.".
  18. Rob From Wisconsin

    Rob From Wisconsin Minister of Fire

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    You may want to try the Century Heating model S244E. I have two (2) of
    them, the last one replacing a $1500 European cast-iron beast that was
    a poor performer. A rather small stove, it very much outperformed its
    replacement. I'm impressed w/ Century's combustion technology, plus
    it is manufactured in Canada and the price is right (less than $400).
    See my very recent review under "Stove Ratings" here in Hearthnet.
    They are available at Menards (year-round) & Lowe's (seasonal??).

    Rob
  19. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

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    Given the problems I've seen reported on this site and the lack of UL Listing, I'd stay away from these. Look at those stoves, then go look at a small Morso 1410 coal burning model or the Small Esse or Harmon Mark I. Yes, the cheapest of these, (the Morso or Esse are similar in price) are roughly 3x the price, but if you look at how their made in comparison, you'll see the difference. Look at the Harmon and you'll REALLY see a difference. Harmon's are built like sherman tanks and weigh almost as much. When a stove gets hot...I'm talking REALLY hot you'll wonder if that potbelly stove is going to hold up. The heavier made stoves are made with a margin of safety that allows UL to approve of them to be sitting in your livingroom and managed by the average person.
  20. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    i have to echo what the others are saying on this one , if you have a unit installed that is not ul listed you stand a very good chance of having your homeowners drop you because of it, specifically , if you did have one in the home and you had a fire, even if the stove had nothing to do with it , your insurance likely would not pay for damages ( cruel , but not unlawful) im not commenting on the quality (biting a hole in my lip) because i said i wouldnt in here. but go out and get a ul listed unit. the headaches that a non ul unit can cause you will give you a migraine before you even try to light the stove.

    mike esw
  21. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

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    I went with a 375 gal propane tank and a new Warm Glo stove. I think I will be able to heat all winter on one tank for about $450 and the stove was $180. I didnt have a chain saw or a pick up so I would have been buying wood for $80 a load. I still plan on getting a stove one day but for now I had to put that dream on the back burner (pardon the pun). I have to say the propane stove will spoil you. I think about going out in the cold and getting wood and starting a fire and I just reach over and turn up the heat lol.
  22. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Problem for me and propane was that the man could also just reach over and turn up the heat (price) on me. And did just that, year after year.
  23. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    There was only one of the Dirty Harry movies that used the "Do you feel lucky?" sequence, I think it was "Dirty Harry" and I know it was NOT "Magnum Force".

    There were two scenes where Harry used the "Do you feel lucky?" line, one at the beginning of the movie, where the perpetrator was a black bank robber, and Harry did the "click" after the guy said he "had to know". You got the distinct impression that Harry could count better than he was letting on, and was bluffing his way out of a bad scene with an empty piece. We didn't see anything more of that bad guy, presumably he was off enjoying gov't hospitality....

    At the end of the movie there was a similar scene involving the slimeball that Harry had been having trouble all movie long. This time Harry egged him into making a move, again presumably having kept count, but knowing that he had to make the guy do something to justify blowing him away - Remember that this perp had already beaten at least one rap on a technicality and was out to ruin Harry personally - Harry didn't wanting him walking again and causing more trouble.

    We now end this interruption for movie analysis and return you to your regularly scheduled session of "Reasons to Hate Vogelzang" :p

    Gooserider
  24. hardwood715

    hardwood715 Feeling the Heat

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    Wow, stoking a white VZ in a garage, Hmmm I wonder if this guy base jumps, sky dives, or just someone who likes to take some long shots!
  25. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Death box I tell yeah Death box. Need one say any more the description says it all
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