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Is this typical for catalytic stove?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by lumbering on, May 19, 2013.

  1. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    The cape cod has a little ghosting going on. Just came back from dealer. Over 4000$ and because the cat bypass slides out horizontally from the side, will never work in my set up.

    Is there a smaller model on the horizon?

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  2. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    I was gonna ask you about that. That feature would kill most hearth installs.
    There is a smaller one coming, I saw it at the HPBA show a few months ago.
  3. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Sorry, I'm just not sold on those hybrids yet. They look like non cat burn tube stoves with a cat to clean up what ever emissions are left. If there was a way to flip a switch back and forth between cat and no cat I'd be sold but it seems like the non cat is more in control.
  4. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    I love cat stoves, don't get me wrong. But why flip a switch? I have had several of both and am very pleased with the way the Hybrid works. It's the finest stove I have ran! I'm not particularly partial to any stove, but I'm getting hooked on the Hybrid.
    raybonz likes this.
  5. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Why flip a switch? More control over heat output. It's nice to have that low long heat output of a cat stove without some secondary tubes taking over and raising the output. There should be a way to cut that secondary air off as needed.
  6. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    I have great control! I guess some people are hooked on what they know and are compfortable with. I like trying new things. It'll catch on big time, some will take advantage of it and some won't.
  7. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    I'm sold on them. If they made a hybrid as pretty and functional as my old F12's, I'd have likely bought one instead of another used F12 last year. Unfortunately, there were reasons why each of them did not fit my application. I'm really impressed with the Woodstock PH, although I really dislike the cosmetics of all Woodstock stoves. To each his own...
  8. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Can you completely shut her down to a cat only burn for 24+ hours? Maybe I'm a bit picky but I'd just like to see these hybrids be able to burn low and slow like a Blaze King then turn around and blast out the higher BTU's of a non cat as needed. Maybe the new Union hybrid from Woodstock will fit the bill?
  9. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    I agree that it will catch on big time if and when they tweak them to optimize the low and slow side of the output curve. I believe that this is as simple as cutting off the air to the the secondary system once the draft control is slid down past 50%. This allows a cat stove when you want a cat stove and a non-cat when you want really high heat. Why on earth a hybrid designer would allow air in the secondary manifold to destroy burn times and create runaway during low burn, like the PH does, is a mystery to me. I believe that this is a result of a misguided primary concern with ultra low emissions.

    The cod is pretty close. Getting 18 hours is better than all of the other cat and hybrid competition except of course BK.

    I don't want a non-cat with a cat to clean up emissions. I want a cat stove with boost air to clean up emissions when burning really hot and too fast for the cat to keep up.
  10. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Lets face it, no other stove is even in the same ball park as BK on burn times. They have alien technology after all. My cod never has any kind of run away fire on low, after I shut the air off it slowly goes into cat mode. Then I rarely see anything but cat glow within 10 minutes of shutting it down.I get the occasional fireball flare up like the videos above.
  11. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Does your keystone get 24hr burns? Its cat only and gets 10 hours or so, right?
  12. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    The Keystone is only a 1.4 cu ft fire box but I can get consistant 12 hour burns and my record is 16. What's the Cod, 3 cu ft? I expect a stove twice the size of my little Keystone to get double the burn times but maybe that's not possible without some kind of BK t-stat?
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  13. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    One of the issues with the cod is that the firebox size is kinda hard to use because of its shape. 12"x24" is kinda hard to stuff full, if I could I think I could get longer burns.
  14. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    There you go. Woodstock makes some good, small, straight cat stoves that get dang good burn times without the alien technology. So if the efficiency is held constant and the fuel load doubled (or tripled) the burn time should also double (or triple). Lopi did good for their first attempt and if Lopi can do this then surely WS and the rest of the brands can do it too.
  15. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Efficiency AND temperature.

    Efficiency could remain roughly the same, but if surface temp goes way up, you're chewing thru wood faster. I fact, even at the same surface temp, as you have more surface. This is not a sign of lower efficiency, just a sign of increased power output.
  16. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Dang it, you're right. Guess we'll have to insulate the firebox to reduce heat loss to the larger surface area.
  17. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    I have to say this not true with all reburn stoves.. The baffle system employed on the T-5 looks much different and is quite pleasing to watch..

    Ray
  18. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    This is the first time I have ever heard of anyone complaining about the way a tube stove looks while its doing its thing. It's very nice to watch! It's beautiful!
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  19. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    I have to agree that I enjoy seeing the fire and one of the reasons why I decided to buy my stove..

    Ray
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  20. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    They say there are too many debates on here about cat vs non-cat, but I am finding this debate very helpful.

    The view and type of fire is very important for a lot of people. While I appreciate those that seek absolute efficiency or heating capacity above all else, aesthetics do weigh heavily in my decision.

    I also find the "ghost flame" view the most appealing. The tube style is nothing shabby, but the ghost flame is the best.

    Out of all the videos posted, the woodstock fireview and keystone seem to be the most appealing. Which is why I originally asked, "Is this typical?"

    The problem is I just don't know what a cat or non-cat burn looks like through the ENTIRE burn cycle. How long does the ghosting period last? Most of the cycle? are there air settings that can prolong this?

    It also seems the progress does not quite approximate the same pattern as the fireview or keystone??

    ALso, any Jotul Oslo owners what to weigh in? That's currently my alternative choice to a woodstock.
  21. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    The length of time for those ghosting flames depends on a few factors. For sure the type of wood and the temperature of the stove along with the draft setting. Here is a real short video I took one evening. My camera really eats up the storage space so that is why I cut it short. I think I had another one but something didn't turn out so this is probably the only one I've posted.

  22. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    In my experience with several cat stoves is that the ghosting mostly happens right after the air is reduced to a low setting. After a short time the big explosive ghost flames are far and few between. Some will likely disagree, but I'm am speaking from my experience from many stoves. The cat stoves have the longest burns, but the fire show was very important to me, and I didn't get much from my cat stoves once I turned the air down. My tube style stoves have a lot of ghosting and "gas grill" flames. The hybrid has been the best. My jotul Oslo was a very nice stove too. In fact it's the only stove I wish I would have kept.
  23. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    The most impressive secondaries I have seen is on the WS PH stove.. Unreal inferno!

    Ray
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  24. Mr.Hardwoods

    Mr.Hardwoods New Member

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    I am way too much of a firebug to get a cat stove. I have a need to see flames and lots of them. Currently I have a crappy ZC fireplace that was in the house when I bought it. Looking forward to 2 years from now when I get to rip it our and install a proper stove. can't wait to see what they have in two years.

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