It's started

[semipro]

LIdar, vehicle to vehicle communications (V2V) and artificial intelligence are combining to make this a reality.

The future of the one piece that really requires a federal hand, V2V, is not so certain now.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/report-trump-administration-backs-away-from-v2v-mandate/
A later DOT statement said that there was no final decision on this yet.
Failure to follow through on a V2V requirement would demonstrate a tremendous lack of foresight by 45's administration.

 

[semipro]

Having some machine vision expertise myself, I would go with LIDAR myself, especially as costs have been falling off a cliff lately. But don't tell all the Tesla customers who are expected autonomy as a free over the air upgrade sometime soon.

IMO the robustness needed for real-world operating will only be attained with sensor fusion and V2V/V2I sharing of a real time map of the operating environment. Most if not all Level 2 automated vehicles available rely on sensor fusion. Tesla, which is currently at Level 2 uses radar, visual, and ultrasonic sensors.

 

[woodgeek]

The future of the one piece that really requires a federal hand, V2V, is not so certain now.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/report-trump-administration-backs-away-from-v2v-mandate/
A later DOT statement said that there was no final decision on this yet.
Failure to follow through on a V2V requirement would demonstrate a tremendous lack of foresight by 45's administration.

Looks like a **regulation** that will make cars more expensive to me....

 

[semipro]

Looks like a **regulation** that will make cars more expensive to me....

It is that but it has a very high benefit-cost ratio IMO. The cost is estimated at about $350/vehicle.
Imagine though that communication via the unit will alert you if you're going to run a red light, or that someone else is and you're likely to get tee-boned.

 

[Ashful]

It is that but it has a very high benefit-cost ratio IMO. The cost is estimated at about $350/vehicle.
Imagine though that communication via the unit will alert you if you're going to run a red light, or that someone else is and you're likely to get tee-boned.

I already have those sensors on my car. They're called my eyeballs.

BTW, "cost" or "price"? There's quite a mark-up on direct BOM cost in automobiles.

 

[semipro]

I already have those sensors on my car. They're called my eyeballs.

BTW, "cost" or "price"? There's quite a mark-up on direct BOM cost in automobiles.

X-ray vision? -- you'd have to see through the cars in the left turn lane perpendicular to your travel direction to see a car that was going to tee-bone you from your right.

How about preventing rear collision in fog?

Actually found lower estimates of cost to consumer here: http://www.itsknowledgeresources.it...04A5185257D4200555DB8?OpenDocument&Query=Home
A range of about $100 - $300.

 

[begreen]

The city of Shenzhen (11.9 million) has made the transition to all electric buses. Starting in 2011, they achieved this goal in 6 years.
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/12/100-electric-bus-fleet-shenzhen-pop-11-9-million-end-2017/

 

[begreen]

Interesting how quickly assumptions are changing. OPEC made a 500% adjustment in their forecast of electric vehicle production in one year.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...p-to-the-threat-of-rising-electric-car-demand

 

[woodgeek]

Interesting how quickly assumptions are changing. OPEC made a 500% adjustment in their forecast of electric vehicle production in one year.
View attachment 216981
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...p-to-the-threat-of-rising-electric-car-demand

More importantly, the early part of the curve (mid 2020s) was revised more than 500% higher.

 

[begreen]

It'll be interesting to see the 2017 forecast.

 

[woodgeek]

I'm waiting for the (first) peak demand forecast from Exxon in early 2018.

 

[Ashful]

I just realized another potential casualty of the EV... our beloved garage beer fridges! I usually have at least one car with a warm engine radiating the day's heat, and keeping that garage above 55F, where my beer fridge is happy to run. If (rare occasion) I go more than 3 days without driving one of the cars parked in that garage, the temperature in winter can easily drop to the point where one of my refrigerators will turn to a heater (stalled compressor?), and ruin everything within.

I have a direct vent heater in the garage, but I don't like running it just to keep the food and beer in the refrigerators cold. Woodgeek is smart enough to point out this is technically no less wasteful than driving a car with a big inefficient ICE, but unlike the car, running a propane heater to keep things cold brings me no joy.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like a defective beer fridge. We have a refrig and freezer in our unheated garage. Never had this happen to either of them.

 

[woodgeek]

Time for a new **Energy Star** beer fridge!

I mean...put a kill-a-watt on the sucka....it might be pulling 5,000 kWh per year, and you'd never know.

 

[peakbagger]

I always wondered how a coke machine survives in below freezing weather, does it have a heater or do they install reversing valves and turn the unit into a heat pump?

 

[vinny11950]

I always wondered how a coke machine survives in below freezing weather, does it have a heater or do they install reversing valves and turn the unit into a heat pump?

I have left bottles of Coke in the Jeep overnight in below freezing temps (around 10 degrees), and they didn't freeze. Coke is a strange product with powerful properties.

 

[begreen]

Coke is a strange product with powerful properties.

Yes, it's a great rust and paint remover. Just don't drink the stuff.

 

[peakbagger]

Yes, it's a great rust and paint remover. Just don't drink the stuff.

Funny you say that, my uncle had a recycling yard up in Canada year ago and he had a soak tank for rusty parts that used coke.

And now back to the thread

 

[Seasoned Oak]

All the ICE cars and trucks now on the road and currently rolling off the assembly lines are not going away anytime soon. These cars and trucks last for decades ,and there is a large chunk of the population that NEVER buys new. So the rapid death of the ICE has been greatly exaggerated IMHO.

 

[Ashful]

Time for a new **Energy Star** beer fridge!

I mean...put a kill-a-watt on the sucka....it might be pulling 5,000 kWh per year, and you'd never know.

You got it backwards. I’ve gone from one 1853 GE, to a 1980’s KitchenAid, to a 2010 Kenmore, and now three brandy-new Danby under-counter bar fridges. The older ones were fine in all weather (R13 and R22), but these new “efficient” units just stall anytime the temp drops below 55F.

 

[georgepds]

Found this explanation of the failing fridge in cold temperatures

"Actually, most chest freezers will do just fine in freezing ambient temps. Nothing will thaw.
The notorious 'garage problem' is unique to consumer level refrigerator/freezer combinations. Through a feat of engineering genius, IMO, they are able to maintain two boxes (refrigerator and freezer) at two very different, but completely appropriate temperatures (0-ish and 40-ish), using a single compressor and thermostat. The problem is that they only do this well at nominal room temperature. The reason for this is that the thermostat controls only the temp of the refrigerator section. The cold air is directed through the freezer box, and a small amount is allowed to bleed into the fridge. By the time the fridge reaches 40 degrees, the freezer is near enough to zero (in the most common arrangement, the 'fresh food' or similarly labeled knob controls the thermostat, while the 'freezer' knob controls a damper between the two boxes). As the ambient temp drops, the compressor is called upon less and less, resulting in insufficient cooling in the freezer box, and the freezer temp begins to rise. When the ambient temp is below 40, the thermostat is happy and the compressor is never called into service. The result is that the freezer eventually settles in at ambient temp, too.
So, as long as you can live without the freezer compartment, and you have some way to add heat in the winter, an old refrigerator/freezer makes a fine garage kegerator."

And this

"There is a garage kit available for the Kenmore 253 source and Frigidaire top freezer models that will allow the unit to operate in low ambient temperatures of 34 degrees and above. The garage kit is a foil type heater that basically tricks the refrigerator thermostat into thinking the fresh food section needs to be cooled down and brings on the compressor. The other problem is in low temperatures the oil in the compressor will gel and not lubricate the compressor properly leading to premature failure.

If you want to have a refrigerator that will work in the garage Whirlpool makes one called the

Gladiator "

 

[Ashful]

Found this explanation of the failing fridge in cold temperatures

"Actually, most chest freezers will do just fine in freezing ambient temps. Nothing will thaw.
The notorious 'garage problem' is unique to consumer level refrigerator/freezer combinations. Through a feat of engineering genius, IMO, they are able to maintain two boxes (refrigerator and freezer) at two very different, but completely appropriate temperatures (0-ish and 40-ish), using a single compressor and thermostat. The problem is that they only do this well at nominal room temperature. The reason for this is that the thermostat controls only the temp of the refrigerator section. The cold air is directed through the freezer box, and a small amount is allowed to bleed into the fridge. By the time the fridge reaches 40 degrees, the freezer is near enough to zero (in the most common arrangement, the 'fresh food' or similarly labeled knob controls the thermostat, while the 'freezer' knob controls a damper between the two boxes). As the ambient temp drops, the compressor is called upon less and less, resulting in insufficient cooling in the freezer box, and the freezer temp begins to rise. When the ambient temp is below 40, the thermostat is happy and the compressor is never called into service. The result is that the freezer eventually settles in at ambient temp, too.
So, as long as you can live without the freezer compartment, and you have some way to add heat in the winter, an old refrigerator/freezer makes a fine garage kegerator."

And this

"There is a garage kit available for the Kenmore 253 source and Frigidaire top freezer models that will allow the unit to operate in low ambient temperatures of 34 degrees and above. The garage kit is a foil type heater that basically tricks the refrigerator thermostat into thinking the fresh food section needs to be cooled down and brings on the compressor. The other problem is in low temperatures the oil in the compressor will gel and not lubricate the compressor properly leading to premature failure.

If you want to have a refrigerator that will work in the garage Whirlpool makes one called the

Gladiator "

This is a real problem, also exacerbated by no ICE's in the garage, but not what I'm describing or experiencing. In my case, all of my garage units are dedicated separate refrigerators and freezers. There is no combo frige/freezer unit in my garage.

What happens in these newer units is that the liquid refrigerant always goes to the coldest spot in the system, which is the condenser, when it gets cold enough in the garage. As a result, there is no refrigerant moving thru the evaporator, to do the required work of cooling. This is a result of new EPA mandates on how much refrigerant a system can hold, not an issue with older refrigerators, which are charged with a higher volume of refrigerant.

 

[georgepds]

I have left bottles of Coke in the Jeep overnight in below freezing temps (around 10 degrees), and they didn't freeze. Coke is a strange product with powerful properties.

This I remember from high school chemistry.. it's called freezing point depression. Mix almost anything with water (salt,sugar,etc) and you lower the freezing point .. nothing to do with the special properties of coke

 

[vinny11950]

This I remember from high school chemistry.. it's called freezing point depression. Mix almost anything with water (salt,sugar,etc) and you lower the freezing point .. nothing to do with the special properties of coke

Don't kill the mystery.

 

[vinny11950]

In the back of my mind I keep thinking of the movie Syriana....

Oil sits at around $57. I know I am going to sound paranoid, but I think the goal of any conflict would be to disrupt Iranian oil flow to market so global prices can keep going higher. Saudis win, shale producers win, and Iran loses.

It kind of is a Catch 22 for oil producers who want higher prices for their product but higher gasoline prices make EVs more attractive to consumers.

Let's see....

1) rolling back fuel efficiency standards? on the way (California state rights? forget about it)

2) pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal? check

3) starting another war in the Middle East? check

Oil prices over $70 a barrel - Priceless.



Hmm, what a coincidence. I wonder how many crummy condos the Saudis had to buy.

Oh yeah, and the budget deficit as a yearly percent of GDP has gotten bigger since the fiscal conservatives took over. This is Iraq war/financial crisis all over again.