Jotul C450 install - elbow clearance issue w/ pics

[FGZ]

Howdy y'all, I'm new to woodburning and just got my Jotul C450 installed last week. I saved some money having a guy come help me out, but the downside to that is he didn't have every possible elbow/connector/gadget that a full-service company might have, which leaves me to make the final connection in a tight spot.

Last week we dropped 6" stainless flex liner down my unlined chimney, ovalized it to fit through the damper, and got it close to the Jotul. I then shoved rock wool up between the liner and chimney to seal that off a bit. I know a backing plate may be the better way to go, that'll have to wait though.

Gratuitous poser pic:

But now I have to deal with my decision to save money: here's where my masonry clearance headache starts

photobucket is acting up for me, so the pics aren't quite right but hopefully work...
SEE THE THREE PICS IN THIS ALBUM - copy/paste between the ""
<http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/fgz1/House 09/>



I only have ~3.5" of room from the top of the stove opening to brick - this is a front shot

That ledge only goes back for about an inch, then slopes up sharply as you get into the damper cavity. Side shot:

And 3rd pic zooms out a little, from the side

I've tried to fit an adjustable 90* elbow in there - not enough room.

So, can anyone point me to some off-the-shelf options for making this connection in such a tight space? I've found some interesting adjustable options from Chimney Liner Depot SUCH AS THIS GUY but it kinda looks like an iffy option. Are there some threads around here (that my searches didn't turn up) that have dealt with similar issues?

Any help or advice appreciated!

 

[southbalto]

I don't know how I feel about that ovalized pipe.

I'd be thinking hard about cutting out that damper and brick.

 

[daronk]

ouch - so a straight line up from the outside lip of the stove exhaust will hit the lintel? What are your fireplace cavity dimensions? Is the stove in all the way? With the stove in it's current location how much of it sticks out from the front face of the fireplace?

Also...is crushing that liner a good thing to do? Is this a normal procedure or does everyone remove the entire damper frame to fit a 6" liner?

 

[southbalto]

whoops

 

[FGZ]

ouch - so a straight line up from the outside lip of the stove exhaust will hit the lintel?

Yes, you got it.

What are your fireplace cavity dimensions?

I have them at home so will have to add that tonight, but they were within spec of what's called out for the C450.
EDIT - Lintel ht is 24". Manual calls for 23" minimum, so it makes me think there's a way to work around this. Maybe not so much.

Is the stove in all the way? With the stove in it's current location how much of it sticks out from the front face of the fireplace?

Yes it's in as far as it can go, as limited by the front face plate. The 4 adjustable/sliding bolts on the sides of the firebox are slid as far as they will go, so I can't go in any farther without somehow recessing the faceplate into the brick.

Also...is crushing that liner a good thing to do? Is this a normal procedure or does everyone remove the entire damper frame to fit a 6" liner?

The installer acted like it was common practice, so I didn't question it. Looking at it from a cross-sectional area standpoint, you only reduce the x-section a little as you ovalize it. At some point it starts to diminish a lot, but I'm not (or wasn't, depending on feedback here) worried about it.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

I've heard many people talking about ovalizing a pipe - in fact I even did some flow calculations on one post. As long as you're not crushing it, there's no effect. Most people seem to be in agreement. It does complicate cleaning perhaps. My pipe is oval the whole way down....

 

[FGZ]

Fixed the pics - the forum doesn't like spaces in urls.

 

[jotulguy]

i just installed one of them last weekend....similar install to yours and we used an offset box. they are about $140 retail but worth it to get the job done!

 

[FGZ]

i just installed one of them last weekend....similar install to yours and we used an offset box. they are about $140 retail but worth it to get the job done!

Good to hear it can be done, lol

Any more info you can tell me about the piece you used? I've seen several around the intrawebs and am heading up to NH tomorrow to visit some stove shops that might have some good options for me. And then I can find out more about longevity, cleaning, etc.

Thanks for any info

 

[OhioBurner©]

The installers had to break out the damper with a hydraulic jack as well as remove several bricks. After that slight alteration, it fit right up.

 

[FGZ]

The installers had to break out the damper with a hydraulic jack as well as remove several bricks. After that slight alteration, it fit right up.

I'm considering this my last option. My damper is only held in by some (not much) mortar and some masonry nails, so after I cut the nails and give it a tug I'm pretty sure it will just be a matter of cleaning up the dusty mess. I'm not very confident in chipping out some bricks, but will give it a shot if I can't get some offset box options to work. Headed to Yankee (where I bought it but declined their install) this morning to see what options they have.

 

[OhioBurner©]

I'm considering this my last option. My damper is only held in by some (not much) mortar and some masonry nails, so after I cut the nails and give it a tug I'm pretty sure it will just be a matter of cleaning up the dusty mess. I'm not very confident in chipping out some bricks, but will give it a shot if I can't get some offset box options to work. Headed to Yankee (where I bought it but declined their install) this morning to see what options they have.

I dont blame you... I was debating on the install myself until I reliazed I'd have to mess with resizing that opening... between breaking out the damper and possibly removing bricks I decided to utilize some of that government tax credit and have it installed professionaly. If I didnt have to mess with the fireplace I would have done it myself. But that tax credit helps ease the install fee.

 

[FGZ]

I'm considering this my last option. My damper is only held in by some (not much) mortar and some masonry nails, so after I cut the nails and give it a tug I'm pretty sure it will just be a matter of cleaning up the dusty mess. I'm not very confident in chipping out some bricks, but will give it a shot if I can't get some offset box options to work. Headed to Yankee (where I bought it but declined their install) this morning to see what options they have.

I dont blame you... I was debating on the install myself until I reliazed I'd have to mess with resizing that opening... between breaking out the damper and possibly removing bricks I decided to utilize some of that government tax credit and have it installed professionaly. If I didnt have to mess with the fireplace I would have done it myself. But that tax credit helps ease the install fee.

I busted the damper out of there today. The nails and mortar holding it in weren't in the best shape, so taking my time I did a lot of vacuuming and minimal hammering and cut 2 nails and down it came. Pics to come when I can get the thing hooked up finally. Having a 5-month-old slows things down somehow lol

 

[southbalto]

I really think you made the right move. Nice clean fit.

You're going to enjoy that insert for many many years.

 

[FGZ]

TONS more room to work, but wow those a-connectors are tough to get just right. At the top of my adjustable 90 that I want to use, is a big band clamp. Fitting the flex pipe into the ID of the 90 has been really tough for me, spent a few hours trying to get it last night.

In this pic I think I barely have it started all the way around, but shoving it in another ~2" is going to be a pain. I assume there's a trick to this that's beyond my noobery - any suggestions?

 

[begreen]

Good to see the progress here. Is there clay flue tile above the damper?

 

[FGZ]

Good to see the progress here. Is there clay flue tile above the damper?

It looks like someone smeared around a bit of clay-looking mortar prior to putting the damper in, but nothing to speak of.

I'm back to trying to get that connector done - it's getting the flex pipe into the elbow that's the hard part, we'll see if some other methods plus heat will work.

 

[begreen]

if there is no tile liner, the new stainless liner must be insulated. After hours of burning, the brick can get very hot, especially where the metal comes iin direct contact with the brick. This heat is transmitted through the brick where often there is wood.

 

[FGZ]

if there is no tile liner, the new stainless liner must be insulated. After hours of burning, the brick can get very hot, especially where the metal comes iin direct contact with the brick. This heat is transmitted through the brick where often there is wood.

That's tough to hear. I had one chimney guy (mason/sweep) tell me I needed an insulated liner when he was looking at the chimney structure for me, but his reason was to keep the gas hotter and creosote down. When I asked the stove shop about it they dismissed the need, and the installer didn't say anything about it either. Additionally, the stove shop came to my house for a site eval before selling me the unit (they were originally going to do install) and never mentioned it or tried to upsell me, they just said I needed to have it cleaned and pointed out some trim clearance issues. The sweep they recommended that did the cleaning made sure I wasn't going to burn in the fireplace w/o a liner, but didn't mention insulated.

So I'm going to have to check local codes now and make sure I can pass inspection with it as is, plus watch my brick temps and go from there. I will have to make it right as soon as I can, which money-wise isn't now.

I wish I had known this earlier...
EDIT - aka, should've signed up at hearth.com earlier. Thanks for letting me know!