Jotul or Hearthstone? Size and placement.

[papahirt]

I'll try to make this quick and easy as possible. I have 2 Zero Clearance fireplaces in a tri-level house - about 2,000 sq. ft, here in Colorado. They do nothing but eat wood, and maybe raise the inside temperature 1 degree. Hardly any inserts will fit inside them, if they do the firebox is so small I don't want it - and most installers aren't eager to try it. This is a brick and wood facade chimney, not solid masonry. My best bet seems to be putting a stove in front and venting up through the fireplace. To do this I need a rear venting stove that isn't more than 24" to the top of the vent pipe. My choices seem to be a Jotul F 3CB, or a Hearthstone Homestead. The latter is about $900 more, but has a bigger firebox. Soapstone or cast iron? Neither is quite big enough to heat the entire house. Though we would be using this to supplement our electric heat and cut down on utility bills in the coldest months.

Is it worth my time to spend the money on a stove hardly big enough, or should I try something else? I was planning on putting it in the lower level, assuming it would go up the stairwell into the upper levels. Or would it be better to put in in the middle level so it heats closer to where we spend time - the upper level has the bedrooms and kitchen etc.?

I have learned a lot reading these posts, and finally am making the effort to get some good advice from people who seem to know a lot more than many dealers and installers I've come across. Any help appreciated.

 

[begreen]

Greetings papahirt, welcome aboard.

There are the options you have mentioned, but as you've noted, they are a compromise. Another option is to tear it out and do it right so that you can put in a stove that will do the job well. To heat this space you are going to want a full-sized heater, probably a 3 cu ft stove.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Greetings papahirt, welcome aboard.

There are the options you have mentioned, but as you've noted, they are a compromise. Another option is to tear it out and do it right so that you can put in a stove that will do the job well. To heat this space you are going to want a full-sized heater, probably a 3 cu ft stove.

"tri-level house - about 2,000 sq. ft"
-Depending upon the layout, one stove may not be able to heat the whole house. Any chance the original poster can show us some floorplans?

 

[thinkxingu]

papahirt,
You're in the same situation we were, except that our house is a split-level. While running a smaller stove downstairs, the Englander 13, we could keep the basement at 70 and the upstairs at 65. That was running the stove fairly hard (reloading every 3 hours or so) but with only one stairwell and crappy single-pain windows throughout.
This year, we bought a Homestead for the upstairs and it works much better for us. It keeps our whole top level at 70 easily, even in single-digit weather (1,200 square feet) again with crappy windows (we can see curtains moving in the wind!). When the temps get down to low single-digits, we have to run the stove average: about 450 stovetop temp with a reload cycle of about 4-6 hours since the soap puts out heat far longer than the steel stove in the basement.

SO: I agree with Browning that one stove may not heat the whole house, and that we need to see plans, but if you've got a well-insulated home with open stairwells, the Homestead might suit the purpose.

S

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

Hearthstone if you will be heating 24/7 with someone there to feed it throughout the day.
Jotul if want heat quick after coming home from a long day at work.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

main issue when installing the homestead will be floor protection, 4" leg "hearth-mount" requires 6.6r

Non-combustible floor construction or floor protector with an "R"-value of 6.6 beneath the stove and extending 4" in front of glass.


doubt ANY zc fireplace has a hearth so over built!

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

main issue when installing the homestead will be floor protection, 4" leg "hearth-mount" requires 6.6r

Non-combustible floor construction or floor protector with an "R"-value of 6.6 beneath the stove and extending 4" in front of glass.


doubt ANY zc fireplace has a hearth so over built!

I actually placed thermometers underneath our Hearthstone, and virtually all the heat was
directly underneath the stove, and much less as came out.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

main issue when installing the homestead will be floor protection, 4" leg "hearth-mount" requires 6.6r

Non-combustible floor construction or floor protector with an "R"-value of 6.6 beneath the stove and extending 4" in front of glass.


doubt ANY zc fireplace has a hearth so over built!

I actually placed thermometers underneath our Hearthstone, and virtually all the heat was
directly underneath the stove, and much less as came out.

BUT, he still has to build to the requirements of the stove, and I can tell you building up a hearth to those specs takes some thought.

also BUT.. he may be on a concrete slab where he wants to place the stove.

Floor plan would be nice, maybe even pictures..

 

[Fsappo]

Yank out the prefab and see if you have space for a larger firebox (greater than 2.5 cubic foot) epa certified wood fireplace. Keep the fireplace look, dont lose floor space, etc.

 

[begreen]

+1 as suggested, I would consider starting fresh and go big. At least this is a pre-fab, we tore out a masonry fireplace. It was a good call.

If this is like many tri-plexes, there may be a generous wide connection between floors that will help convect heat up from the bottom floor.

 

[papahirt]

Thanks everyone. I haven't been back to look at my email or replies here since I posted. Come back to find quite a few of you have replied. I'd like to get a floorplan to you, but I don't have a scanner to scan a sketch. As far as starting all over, I'm hesitant to invest that much money, and this is a big chimney we are talking about. See photo attached. The stone chimney is on the mid level, with the upper level visible above. We probably spend $200 a month for electric heating in the coldest months (2 nights of -17 F this winter, but we also get sunny days). Just a small stove in front, new 6" liner, installation is putting us close to $3500, which will take some time to recoup. That's without tearing out this monstrosity.

Here's another photo of the brick hearth that we would probably put the stove on. This is below the stone fireplace. The hearth is bricks on edge, not sure what they are on, but I imagine it is wood framing and not concrete. Sounds like the Jotul is a better option, as we would be firing it up after coming home from work, and cheaper than soapstone. I could also get a larger stove, enlarge the hearth a little, and have it top vent, then 90 into the brick and 90 again up the chimney.

The salesman told me the Jotul Castine, though larger, has more problems with rear venting and drafting than the F 3CB. Anyone know anything about this? Thanks again folks. This site is great.

 

[begreen]

I can see what you mean, that is a lot of nice stonework. How are the floors connected? With a narrow staircase and closed off rooms, or with wide open staircases and a generally open floorplan on the lower floors? If the latter, it should heat ok from the lower floor.

The salesperson is correct. The Castine's shallow firebox likes a strong draft if it is connected rear exit. With a liner, you might have that. How high would your stack be from the brick fireplace?

Another thought would be to not demolish the entire brick fireplace, but just take out the part of the hearth in front of the fireplace. Then rebuild it in brick, but maybe 6" lower and extended by another course of bricks, into the room. Done right this could be quite attractive and it would allow you to put in an F500 or F600, or Quad Isle Royale, or perhaps an Equinox?

 

[papahirt]

Be Green - Yes the floor plan is really open, as you can see in the photo. The lower floor has a narrower staircase but it's only 6 steps or so, so it isn't that boxed in. The height of pipe from that lower floor is probably around 24'. I really like your idea of lowering and extending the brick hearth on the lower fireplace, thereby allowing me to get a larger stove in there. I've looked at the 500 Oslo and the Morso 3610 too.

 

[begreen]

I would also consider the F600 with it's right side door. The Oslo's side door is on the left. If the hearth is lowered, the door will need full swing range and easy access. Otherwise loading from the left side could be a pain. Alternatively, the 2 cu ft Quadrafire Cumberland Gap loads from the right side as does the 2.5 cu ft Hearthstone Bennington.