1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Liner pic, I am stumped and discouraged

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by brian89gp, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. Dave A.

    Dave A. Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    616
    Loc:
    SE PA
    Didn't mean to sound like I was blaming you, rather just trying to troubleshoot it.

    Was in a similar position myself with my previous Century insert -- also too small for the house and trying to coax more heat out of it. For awhile tried putting an old water heater fiberglass blanket around the back and top of it to get more heat into the room from the front. Fortunately the stove was just too small and was probably impossible to over fire with what I was loading it, so never had that problem and didn't keep the blanket on there very long. But while I had it on it did increase stove temps about 75-100 degrees though that was only to as high as about 650.

    Eventually found that removing the surround worked better in getting more heat out of it.

    Hopefully, you'll get some more definitive answers when the sweep comes. If it were me, I think I would be putting in a warranty claim on the liner though since you do seem pretty confident there was no chimney fire. And you also might be thinking about an insurance claim, if you haven't already.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. brian89gp

    brian89gp Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    428
    Loc:
    Kansas City
    I was probably compiling best practices from people with short flues, I didn't know back then what I know now. My operating procedure is/was crap. Coal bed was usually burned down to less then 1" thick before reload.

    My apologies, I did not mean to come off sounding that way.

    They view both overfiring and chimney fires as abuse and not covered. This is going to be out of my pocket.
  3. bag of hammers

    bag of hammers Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,137
    Loc:
    Northern ON
    Are you saying that if you lose your house (God forbid) to a chimney fire, they won't cover you? Or that they just won't replace a damaged liner?
  4. Dave A.

    Dave A. Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    616
    Loc:
    SE PA
    You didn't say anything wrong. I only wondered if you might have misunderstood me when you didn't reply to my first message. But that's been cleared up. :)

    If "they" is referring to the insurance co. you may be mistaken. I just read a message here not too long ago from someone who was replacing his stove and liner with the proceeds of his insurance claim from a chimney fire -- stove and liner were destroyed. Might want to double check that.

    And as far as the liner mfr. goes, there are likely addl options if you want to pursue it. You're just at stage one. You could appeal to someone higher up in the co. And if that doesn't work, you could take legal action. Also, you might want to reconsider the idea of not identifying the co and liner. I suspect that others here may think readers should be informed about that given all that you've explained.
  5. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    6,205
    Loc:
    Carver, MA.
    My insurance chimney company paid to have the chimney tile knocked out and a new S/S liner installed including stove pipe to the stove. I paid $500.00 deductible..

    Ray
  6. brian89gp

    brian89gp Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    428
    Loc:
    Kansas City
    No no, warranty claim on the liner from the manufacturer. Those two things aren't covered under warranty. As far as home insurance my deductible is $5000 so it doesn't help much.
  7. bag of hammers

    bag of hammers Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,137
    Loc:
    Northern ON
    Sorry for the confusion on my part Thanks for clarifying that - insurance issues are scary...
  8. brian89gp

    brian89gp Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    428
    Loc:
    Kansas City
    Pulled the stove out to get a better look at the liner. The most warpage is at the bottom and for the first 1-2' and then it gets less and less wavy as it goes up. After about 5' up the walls look smooth
  9. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    44,505
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Seems like there are two issues here. Hellacious draft and a need for more heat. The draft issue is addressable via smaller pipe and a draft damper if still needed. More heat is addressable, but you need to think about what is the best approach. In my book, doing what it takes to reduce heat loss is the first because it pays back year round with heating and air conditioning. If not an option then the next step is more heat. You can't drive a system pedal to the metal and expect it to last.

    Do you have hot water or hot air heat currently?
  10. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,306
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Gotta give ya credit Brian. You are looking for solutions and not getting all defensive about over firing and stuff. I can't tell ya how many would be calling the stove and liner pieces of crap when this happens.
  11. brian89gp

    brian89gp Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    428
    Loc:
    Kansas City
    Hot air heat currently.

    How much smaller on the pipe? 5 or 5.5? Insulation is getting done as I expose places to insulate, but it is a huge old house that will never get down to a heat loss that a single stove can handle. The "best approach" I am formulating is demoting the Buck to recreational use with a smaller liner -and- a damper with temp guages everywhere (wee bit paranoid now...), that way the room won't be at 95* anymore and I might actually be able to enjoy being in there. Smaller fires, more comfortable room, only when I feel like it. Primary heat would be natural gas until I get a wood boiler or furnace or something else that is properly sized this time figured out.

    If I end up putting the Buck back into operation I'll probably buy the same type of liner from the same place again. Hows that for icing on the cake?

    I would love to take credit but its just how I am built.
  12. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    5,425
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    When shopping for our latest insurance plan, I had requested quotes with deductibles close to yours, and the agents treated me like I was plumb crazy. I thought it was the only sane choice, as I don't imagine I'd put a claim in for anything much less than $5k, so why pay the premiums on a plan with a lower deductible?

    In the end, I got tired of arguing with every agent I called, and just took a plan with a more "typical" deductible. You must've stuck to your guns!
  13. bag of hammers

    bag of hammers Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,137
    Loc:
    Northern ON
    FWIW, I think that's a great approach. After a near miss, even though it's good to get back in the saddle again, getting comfortable as a woodburner and taking as much time as you need to do so is better than going full steam ahead again, right away. Get some good experience and comfort level under your belt, then worry about heating the whole place. Others may disagree, but if you got fire in your house, you gotta be at peace with it.

    Of course, it's easy for me to spend your $$ on natural gas ;).

    Oh yeah, Brother Bart nailed it - Kudos to you for stepping up and putting all the cards on the table. Very glad you didn't have an unhappy ending here...
  14. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    44,505
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    If you take that approach, before getting a wood furnace spend the money on tightening up the house, seal cracks and windows, seal the rim joist all the way around the perimeter, seal every ductwork joint, insulate the ductwork including the plenums, add more attic insulation. All of this will pay back with greater comfort and lower bills.
    bag of hammers likes this.
  15. A1Stoves.com

    A1Stoves.com Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    657
    Loc:
    Northern CA
    Ok, so what brand of pipe was it? (so i can avoid it- pretty slimy of them to avoid warrantee coverage IMHO)
    I've never seen a liner damaged like that and i do many inspections after chimney fires!
    Joful and raybonz like this.
  16. bag of hammers

    bag of hammers Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,137
    Loc:
    Northern ON
    +1.
  17. A1Stoves.com

    A1Stoves.com Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    657
    Loc:
    Northern CA
    Need an update: OP, if you dont want to publicly slam them, could pm me the brand/maker?

    I just spoke with 3 major liner makers at the HPBA round-up, and all three assured me they would warrantee such a degraded liner....
    raybonz likes this.
  18. blacktail

    blacktail Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    464
    Loc:
    Western WA
    This has been an interesting and educational thread.
    I have my thermometer on the front of my insert too, in the upper right corner. It's the only decent spot. I don't compare my temps to temps other people report because of the location. Hottest I've seen on mine is 575. If I ever see 700 on my thermometer I'll be in trouble.
  19. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,961
    Loc:
    Salisbury, MD
    Please do tell the manufacturer, this needs to be known. I know Magnaflex or DuraFlex or Olympia would stand behind their smooth wall liners, how many others are out there?

    Rock Flex?
    M Flex?
    Best Flex?
    Fasnsmooth?
    Flex King?

    One has to wonder if it isn't the same company being resold under different names.
  20. brian89gp

    brian89gp Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    428
    Loc:
    Kansas City
    Sweep will be out on Friday to take a look. Also Buck has been helpful and has sent the pictures to their R&D department to help determine the conditions that caused it and what changes they would recommend to prevent it happening again. Even though the manufacturer won't warranty it as of yet, the place I bought it through has offered a 33% off discount on a replacement liner. Once I know more I will post it.

    On a broader level though, look at the specs of most of those smooth flex liners. Pretty much all are made of the same material and are very similar if not the same thickness as each other, I would be doubtful if any of them would have handled the heat any better then the one I got. I mean the liner is warped and melted. The walls are wavy and accordion like in places and has deformed to an oval shape in places. It is even about 6-8" SHORTER then it used to be because of all the warpage. That has been the reason I have not wanted to participate in a witch hunt because I honestly don't think anything short of thicker or higher melting point material would have lasted any better.
  21. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,306
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    When you install a new liner put it in with the crimped edge of that inner strip aimed down so when the liner expands the heat isn't going under the open edges and being trapped. It will make for smoother flow also. For the life of me I don't know why the liner manufacturers do say to do that in the instructions.
  22. brian89gp

    brian89gp Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    428
    Loc:
    Kansas City
    BB, you talking about those flaps that have pealed up inside the liner? Probably due to seepage issues if I had to guess why.

    I am giving serious consideration to the heaviest gauge rigid liner I can find, it is a straight shot aside from the very bottom and two 22.5* angles will take care of that.
    Woody Stover likes this.
  23. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,306
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Yeah go with rigid. That "inner liner" in the double wall flex is a continuous strip and is only attached on one side of the strip. Those "flaps" are what tell me that you have the crimped edge on the up side.
  24. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    348
    I work for Chimney Liner Depot, the manufacture of the Flex King chimney liner line. Just to eliminate one more manufacture from your guessing, it is NOT us. We also do not sell our liners to anybody else to have them sell it under a different name. We are the manufacture of our liner. The only chimney liner we carry is our own.
    mellow and Joful like this.
  25. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,306
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Everybody rest. He isn't blaming the liner or manufacturer. And therefore doesn't want to bad mouth them. I know who made the thing and hundreds of people on here use them and have had no problems.

Share This Page