Lining a masonry chimney

[clemsonfor]

When i purchased my stove i had intentions of lining the flue tile in the future but wanted to save up for it as i had just bought the stove.

My question is i know its the best case senario and the chimney keeps warm better and drafts better, but my question is that will i see a greater efficiency by putting a Stainless liner in my flue? I have a double 9x13 tiled chimney but have one of them blocked off up top to get the draft i need. I know i currently have way to much chimney area as my stove is rated for an 8" pipe. Will i see longer burn times by lining it, more heat?

I get pleanty of heat as is now and can burn an easy 12 hours on about 40-50% air right now.

 

[mellow]

Your draft will be better so you can use less air increasing your efficiency.

Not sure if this is an insert or free standing, if an insert are you at least running a liner to the first tile in the chimney? If not safety is a huge concern here as well with a "slammer" install.

 

[mellow]

I HAve a High Valley insert which uses an 8†liner pipe if you use one. I however have it going into my fireplace and up through the existing chimney. The masonry chimney is a double flue lined with 9x13 flue tiles i beleive. I had to block off one tile as it was sucking down one and blowing out the other. It drafts fine and is similar height as yours. I one day will put a liner but dont have the money now and after a few months last year of almost constant fire i saw no more soot than when i used a fireplace.

Im know that most say never run without a liner but i have seen no problems and my guy who sold it who owns the buck stove store said it will be fine as is. Also in the owners manual it says you can do it this way or put a short pipe in to get it into the flue.

Looking back at this post you made and checking the owners manual for that stove I am quite surprised they give the option of direct connect, that is very surprising as I don't recall seeing any other manufacture allowing anything less than a direct connect. If you ask me they are asking for someone to die from CO poisoning and getting sued.

At a minimum do a direct connect on your insert please.

 

[clemsonfor]

I see your point on how it can be a concern, but people have been running inserts (which i have mine set up as, can be an isert or freestanding stove) set into the fireplace for years, probly since they been making them.

Im not saying this is right or arguing my point of mine being right or anything. The stove shop owner said i could put it in just like i have done?

I am planning on buying a liner, and one of the advertisers i clicked on here has a real good deal compared to others i have looked at on the net, even some really questionable ebay sellers. The one im talking about is ChimneylinerInc dot com. I fiqured this is ok to post as there an advitiser. Their kit was cheaper than some sellers pipe alone, also they offer a lifetime warrenty.

Know any other good but affordable places to get a liner?

 

[Trktrd]

When you do get a liner you should see an incredible improvement in stove performance. These things depend on a good draft to operate properly.

 

[mellow]

I see the 2500 requires 8", depending on your chimney height I would ask High Valley if you could get a 6" liner, since you have a Cat I would also get it insulated due to the lower exhaust temps.

 

[clemsonfor]

I see the 2500 requires 8", depending on your chimney height I would ask High Valley if you could get a 6" liner, since you have a Cat I would also get it insulated due to the lower exhaust temps.

I need to measure the height but just based on ceiling heights and chimy protrusion i think i will need close to 25 ft but may have to get the 30fter as i may need say 27ft and there only in either 25 or 30ft. I will call high valley, they use to be in the moutains in NC but a company actully less than 30 mins from my house in Abbeville, SC bought them this summer. I have no idea if there still produced in NC or they moved production to SC?

 

[mellow]

Dennis & Robert Stoll bought them. Not sure if they are still making them out of the same plant or moved that to SC as well.

I am curious to see what they say about doing a 8" to 6" adapter if you have that tall of a chimney. Also ask if they sell refurbished stoves while you have them on the phone

 

[clemsonfor]

So you know the guys? I will definitly call them as that was my plan on asking about lining and insulating etc. I will ask about the stoves. I got mine Refurbished from the buck stove store in Greenwood SC. It was a take out of a home somewhere in town. I saw if before they checked and cleaned it and replaced Cats. Did not look that bad even dirty. I did however still have a lot of ash to suck out of the smoke path in the stove they missed . They said they thought it to be 5- 6 yrs old last year? Something to do with the ash drawer and something else dated it to a certain production period? I got the 24K door as well, paid less than half of retail w/trim kit and 1 yr warrenty.

 

[Trktrd]

Sounds nice. Pics???

 

[mellow]

It is one of the stoves I had looked at in the past, along with the Buck model 91. Don't know the guys personally. It was nice to see Stoll bought them, hopefully parts will be easily accessible for a while.

The 1500 sure looks nice, if I found a deal on one I would buy it in a heart beat if they are ok with downsizing to a 6" insulated liner at 25ft.

 

[clemsonfor]

ACtually the website before Stoll was a little Archaic and did not load well and had red Xs in places where pics were broken linked. The page now is much better and you can buy Stoll stuff and you can actually shop online now for parts where before i dont remember the option. They reworked it but kept the same look except more info is there and you see their name on it now and they updated history with their stuff. I can now buy the door or blwer or what ever online now. They are prowd of it but it is availible.

If i can down size to a 6" flue i that would be even better as they are even cheaper. The site i was looking at the difference between the 25ft and 30ft liner was $100!! I bet the 6" pipe would be another $100 cheaper hopfully.

Just looked a 30ft 6" is $434 25ft is $369

The 8" is 25ft is $479 , 30ft is $569. Thats not the kit though, on the 8" the 30fter ends up being more than $100diff?

 

[clemsonfor]

Here is the link to my owners manual.

http://www.highvalleystoves.com/resources/HV2500-1500_OwnersManual.pdf

Like i said im not saying what i have is right or the way to do it, but the manual says "IF you want to make a direct connect..." I have always intended in the future to get a liner but i am thinking to get one faster for saftey as well as the efficiency.

 

[clemsonfor]

The flue tile is only 6.5" widex maybe 11" inside. The outside diameter is 8.5x13. I guess now i am stuck with a square or oval pipe? My liner just tripled in cost!

 

[mellow]

My ID was 11.25 x 6.75 and I was able to squeeze an insulated 6" liner down it, granted the terracotta blocks were lined up straight and had minimal concrete splooge sticking out.

 

[clemsonfor]

I just talked to Stoll (dang i forgot to ask about refurbed stoves) they said it would be fine to vent with a 6" pipe it would draft better than the 8". I asked what would be better going with a 6" all the way to the stove or using like 5ft of 8" then reducing down where the tiles start and go through them with a 6" pipe. He said the 8'' reducing to 6" up about 5 ft.

I see you said you used a 6" liner i know ican do that but the stove has an 8" pipe and was wondering about the 6" viability.


So the question, besides the possibility for smoke to filter back into the house, i have never had it happen, the only time is starting a fire and a cold stove with the door open, any way the guy at Stoll said there is nothing wrong with the "slammer" install of sourse he did not say slammer. He said by going the liner route all i would do is make it draft better and maybe last longer, but i can get 12 hour burns as is now. He said "i dont think you will get your monies worth by lining the chimney". He also said he has talked to folks that say they burn much better lined (think he is talking inserts in general).

Im kind of wondering what to do now?

 

[mellow]

If they say a 6" is fine (and I think it will be) then I would go up all the way with that.

Never installed an 8" to 6" adapter before but I think you would have to get an 8" appliance adapter then a foot or two of 8" pipe then install the 8" to 6" reduce converter to 6" for the rest of the way.

Peace of mind and better draft are priceless.

 

[clemsonfor]

If they say a 6" is fine (and I think it will be) then I would go up all the way with that.

Never installed an 8" to 6" adapter before but I think you would have to get an 8" appliance adapter then a foot or two of 8" pipe then install the 8" to 6" reduce converter to 6" for the rest of the way.

Peace of mind and better draft are priceless.

Yea you right. i was going to use an 8" appliance connector to about 5ft of 8" pipe, then a reducer to 6" for the last 20ft of 6" pipe.

So you think that if i put the 8" appliance connector then the 8-6" reducer and up the 23ft or so with 6" pipe i will have no problems? Im worried about not enought area to exhaust the smoke, but im thinking my logic is reversed as what it sounds like is it will suck like a shop vac.

My question again is do you think i will see longer burn times, and more heat output? As is right now i can burn on say 25% air for 12 hours easy. But sometimes it seems like if i have a good hot fire and plenty of coals and i close the air all the way it will snuff it out, which your not suppose to be able to do with a catalyst stove, which leads me to think i have a ever so slight draft problem on a slow burn. My flue tile i think is somewhere around 75sqin of exhaust area where an 8" round has about 50sqin and a 6" will have about 26sqin. The think i worry about is that the 6" pipe has half the surface area of an 8"er and 1/3 of what i have now. But when i first put it in i had both my flue tiles open and one was sucking and the other was exhausting. The one sucking was pulling air down and then mixing in the smoke shelf then going up the exhaust tile. This gave me a horrible draft and i had to burn almost wideopen and got almost no heat, so i know the less area the better, but im thinking to a point.

 

[mellow]

The cat stove I had was made for an 8" liner, but worked fine on my 6" 25 ft insulated liner, I used a different adapter on mine that allowed me to go 6" all the way, but I wouldn't recommend it for your stove.

I think you could damper down more with the increased draft and burn longer. Not sure about heat output.

 

[clemsonfor]

The cat stove I had was made for an 8" liner, but worked fine on my 6" 25 ft insulated liner, I used a different adapter on mine that allowed me to go 6" all the way, but I wouldn't recommend it for your stove.

I think you could damper down more with the increased draft and burn longer. Not sure about heat output.

I really dont see me getting more heat, i dont think i have a problem with heat or honestly burn times.

Curious why you would not reccomend the connector you got?

 

[mellow]

You have a round exhaust, I had a rectangle, different adapter.