Market rates for cordwood

[sirlight]

Gas prices have went up, but that doesn’t at all correlate with these stupid prices we’re seeing. I mean, they’re absolutely not using that much additional gas to process the wood.

What they are doing is trying to get that much more in their labor charge and I’m sorry, but that charge hasn’t gone up that much to justify what they are trying to charge. It’s simply trying to take advantage of the times. Same with coal prices doubling+.

Sorry, but I don't agree.

Cost of production is a factor and it has gone up some. Anyone with a product to sell can charge whatever they want for it. If you think a product is too expensive don't buy it. A supplier that is trying to take advantage will quickly learn the error of their ways when they are stuck with product and have to discount it. This is how (our) capitalist economy works. It is all about supply and demand. There may be some short term excessive pricing, but eventually the price will balance out when there is an over supply.

 

[Hoytman]

That’s what I said…production costs had gone up some. Not enough to justify the prices they’re asking for around here today. They can absolutely ask whatever they wish and customers can absolutely tell them to “sit on it Ralph”…and sit they will…especially while it’s still 90F like it is now. Just like farmers are eating their $9/dz sweet corn while I still paid what I paid last year from honest farmers who this year have much higher expenses with fuel AND fertilizer costs than wood cutters do. They’re selling their corn at far less profits than last year, but they still sold it this year for $4/dz and sold out while others can’t sell theirs. Who has more to lose, the farmer or the firewood delivery?

The demand hasn’t even yet reached its peak. It’s still summer. It’s called wishing in one hand and crapping in the other. I think me and you agree more than you realize, or more than you give me credit for.

Me and Dad delivered wood during the Carter gas shortages…and neither of us remember wood suppliers trying to gouge people like they are now. The supply and demand then was worse than now. I can honk it boils down to greed and the mentality of people then versus now. Sure wa got more for our wood then, but not that much more…because I very one was helping each other. Times were different then as were the people…the people were much better in my opinion. America lost a lot as the “Greatest Generation” began to pass away.

If a person has to charge $400 for a rick of wood to cover fuel and delivery costs then maybe he’s trying to deliver too far away, more than likely he’s being far too greedy and he will sit in his wood. Consumers don’t get enough credit and business owners often don’t last because they underestimate and don’t understand their customers. Hey…if they can get it more power to them. Capitalism and its finest, right? They just won’t get it from me. I prepared by having fuel oil tanks full, cords of wood split and stacked, tons of anthracite coal on hand, my propane tank is full, as well as new wicks in kerosene heaters with plenty of fuel for them as well. Nope. Not me. I’m ready for all price increases. Bring it!!

 

[sirlight]

That’s what I said…production costs had gone up some. Not enough to justify the prices they’re asking for around here today. They can absolutely ask whatever they wish and customers can absolutely tell them to “sit on it Ralph”…and sit they will…especially while it’s still 90F like it is now. Just like farmers are eating their $9/dz sweet corn while I still paid what I paid last year from honest farmers who this year have much higher expenses with fuel AND fertilizer costs than wood cutters do. They’re selling their corn at far less profits than last year, but they still sold it this year for $4/dz and sold out while others can’t sell theirs. Who has more to lose, the farmer or the firewood delivery?

The demand hasn’t even yet reached its peak. It’s still summer. It’s called wishing in one hand and crapping in the other. I think me and you agree more than you realize, or more than you give me credit for.

Me and Dad delivered wood during the Carter gas shortages…and neither of us remember wood suppliers trying to gouge people like they are now. The supply and demand then was worse than now. I can honk it boils down to greed and the mentality of people then versus now. Sure wa got more for our wood then, but not that much more…because I very one was helping each other. Times were different then as were the people…the people were much better in my opinion. America lost a lot as the “Greatest Generation” began to pass away.

If a person has to charge $400 for a rick of wood to cover fuel and delivery costs then maybe he’s trying to deliver too far away, more than likely he’s being far too greedy and he will sit in his wood. Consumers don’t get enough credit and business owners often don’t last because they underestimate and don’t understand their customers. Hey…if they can get it more power to them. Capitalism and its finest, right? They just won’t get it from me. I prepared by having fuel oil tanks full, cords of wood split and stacked, tons of anthracite coal on hand, my propane tank is full, as well as new wicks in kerosene heaters with plenty of fuel for them as well. Nope. Not me. I’m ready for all price increases. Bring it!!

Guess I missed the point on your previous post. I entirely agree on what you just posted. Yes, there is some gouging going on now and not just in the firewood business. Inflation is a nasty game. Sellers know there is inflation so they raise their prices more than they normally think they could get away with. Buyers see the increases and panic. The mentality is if you don't buy at today's crazy prices it will be even worse in the future and purchase anyway. That allows the seller to increase again since product is selling. This kind of thinking can easily get out of control.

Yes. it is much worse of a situation this year for farmers. The price on nitrogen has about doubled since last year. Many farmers I know have either switched crops, reduced planting or let their fields go fallow for the season. If you have a farmer that is selling you crops for the same price as last year, make sure and give him a big tip, he is really suffering. There will be many people in this world starve this coming year due to food shortages. Everything will get expensive for the rich countries and the poor ones will really suffer and starve.

 

[logfarmer]

That’s what I said…production costs had gone up some. Not enough to justify the prices they’re asking for around here today. They can absolutely ask whatever they wish and customers can absolutely tell them to “sit on it Ralph”…and sit they will…especially while it’s still 90F like it is now. Just like farmers are eating their $9/dz sweet corn while I still paid what I paid last year from honest farmers who this year have much higher expenses with fuel AND fertilizer costs than wood cutters do. They’re selling their corn at far less profits than last year, but they still sold it this year for $4/dz and sold out while others can’t sell theirs. Who has more to lose, the farmer or the firewood delivery?

The demand hasn’t even yet reached its peak. It’s still summer. It’s called wishing in one hand and crapping in the other. I think me and you agree more than you realize, or more than you give me credit for.

Me and Dad delivered wood during the Carter gas shortages…and neither of us remember wood suppliers trying to gouge people like they are now. The supply and demand then was worse than now. I can honk it boils down to greed and the mentality of people then versus now. Sure wa got more for our wood then, but not that much more…because I very one was helping each other. Times were different then as were the people…the people were much better in my opinion. America lost a lot as the “Greatest Generation” began to pass away.

If a person has to charge $400 for a rick of wood to cover fuel and delivery costs then maybe he’s trying to deliver too far away, more than likely he’s being far too greedy and he will sit in his wood. Consumers don’t get enough credit and business owners often don’t last because they underestimate and don’t understand their customers. Hey…if they can get it more power to them. Capitalism and its finest, right? They just won’t get it from me. I prepared by having fuel oil tanks full, cords of wood split and stacked, tons of anthracite coal on hand, my propane tank is full, as well as new wicks in kerosene heaters with plenty of fuel for them as well. Nope. Not me. I’m ready for all price increases. Bring it!!

Yes instead of people “helping” each other out in these very expensive days, they would rather gouge your eyes out! It’s sad people are so greedy these days.. hope all those people with horrific wood prices sit on it all, I’d just use propane vs paying for those prices I found.

 

[DonTee]

I figure between the gas for the chainsaw, fuel for the tractor, and gas for the splitter (if I split everything with the splitter and none by hand) that I have a gallon of fuel into each face cord (1/3 cord) of wood. So the difference between 3$ a fuel and 5$ a gallon is still just dollars per cord. Like you could raise the price by 5$ a face cord and easily cover fuel.
And oil for the chainsaw bar, tractor, and splitter hasn’t gone up that much either. When you divide it up into many cords it’s a small difference

Yes if you’re delivering it might add some cost to it. But most people around here charge for delivery, so it’s a separate charge that you can see. And as long as they aren’t delivering it like 50 miles away that shouldn’t add that much the fuel used anyways.

If you have a truck that gets 10 mpg and you deliver 10 miles away, that uses 2 gallons for a round trip. If gas is 3$ versus 5$ that’s a 4$ difference round trip.

 

[sirlight]

I figure between the gas for the chainsaw, fuel for the tractor, and gas for the splitter (if I split everything with the splitter and none by hand) that I have a gallon of fuel into each face cord (1/3 cord) of wood. So the difference between 3$ a fuel and 5$ a gallon is still just dollars per cord. Like you could raise the price by 5$ a face cord and easily cover fuel.
And oil for the chainsaw bar, tractor, and splitter hasn’t gone up that much either. When you divide it up into many cords it’s a small difference

Yes if you’re delivering it might add some cost to it. But most people around here charge for delivery, so it’s a separate charge that you can see. And as long as they aren’t delivering it like 50 miles away that shouldn’t add that much the fuel used anyways.

If you have a truck that gets 10 mpg and you deliver 10 miles away, that uses 2 gallons for a round trip. If gas is 3$ versus 5$ that’s a 4$ difference round trip.

What you say makes sense from a cost standpoint, but cost is not the entire story. The "person" cutting the wood is more expensive. The guy processing the wood has to pay his living expenses too and those costs have also gone up. It is not just about consumables like gas and chain oil. When it comes time to replace the chainsaw, splitter or tractor that will be more expensive. With inflation, everything goes up and must be included in the price someone is charging for their product. Firewood in not just a product, it is also a service. The service is the cutting, splitting and delivery. Service is time and time costs more now.

 

[DonTee]

I agree with what you’re saying, but I think it’s not sustainable.

I’m a small time seller, and my costs have not increased that much. I still have all the equipment I’ve been using for years. I buy everything used, and wait for good deals to pop up.

But I imagine for the guy with the expensive wood processor that’s getting log loads and delivering with his dump truck, things might be different. The profit margin is already a lot less for him from the start.

 

[Riverbanks]

@DonTee, you are cutting off your own land, right? Like, walk to the tractor for work, a whole different story

 

[DonTee]

@DonTee, you are cutting off your own land, right? Like, walk to the tractor for work, a whole different story

Yes I’m cutting wood on my own land.

I know guys around here that do it both ways. Some guys cut wood on their own land and sell it, and other guys get log loads to split and sell.
Yes there is more work involved if you start with a standing tree and process it into firewood, but as long as you don’t value your time too much, I think it makes more money.

Seems like if you buy log loads that you would need to sell a lot more wood to make the same amount of profit.

There are some exceptions of course. There are guys logging for lumber who have a firewood business on the side. Or tree trimmers that do the same. They get the wood free (or are even paid to take it). That sounds like a pretty sweet deal.

 

[Riverbanks]

Yes, I pay 15$ a cord to the landowner, for cutting on their land, the logger I pay 110 a cord, delivered in log lengths

 

[fbelec]

don't forget the delivery truck tires and the 4 to 7 thousand it costs to have a engine replaced or 3.5 to 6 thousand for a transmission. it's not just gas for the saw and a chain. a stupid quart of oil if you are using synthetic cost 10 to 11 dollars now. it's insane.

 

[DonTee]

If the seller has more expenses he just needs to sell more wood to cover it.

 

[johneh]

If the seller has more expenses he just needs to sell more wood to cover it.

So you are saying double the workload to make the same money
Boy, it must be lonely in your world!

 

[DonTee]

I never said anything about the workload. I said they have to sell more wood to cover expenses.
My point is I don’t care whether wood I buy is split by hand, or by a 150k$ eastonmade processor. It all burns the same in my stove.

From the buyer’s perspective...

 

[Hoytman]

I never said anything about the workload. I said they have to sell more wood to cover expenses.
My point is I don’t care whether wood I buy is split by hand, or by a 150k$ eastonmade processor. It all burns the same in my stove.

From the buyer’s perspective...

Exactly!

Different worlds between hobby sellers, firewood businesses cutting on their own land or someone else’s, and the tree trimmer who gets paid to take the wood.

Customer…me…doesn’t care. I’m looking for the best wood at a fair price to us both. The big guy still has to compete with the weekend warrior. Competition drives the business. Prices too high and the customer says “screw ALL of the competition, “I’ll heat by other means” which kills the business. Big guys and weekend warriors drop out of the business.

Price gouging only works so long and customers get wise, as well as pissed off. When they get pissed off you’ve lost them forever. Business is business, but if you’re smart in business you’ll do fair business to stay in business. If you stay in business people pay attention to that and you get more business if you want it and can handle it. It’s called growth. That’s how jobs are provided.

Customers alway win. Without them there is no business.

 

[fbelec]

cut off your nose to spite your face

 

[Hoytman]

I may or may not have mentioned this before, that I bought some wood from a guy in the business and had him deliver it. The amount ordered and paid for was 3 cords of wood.

He made the delivery in the dark. Red flag number one.

The truck and the dump trailer were loaded with a conveyor or a loader bucket. None of it came stacked. Red flag number two.

Got me once…he’ll NEVER get another opportunity again. I never said a word to him, but whenever someone mentions buying wood I tell them SPECIFICALLY who to avoid. To date I know I have told at least 3 dz people to avoid that business.

Folks, whether or not you stack your wood for a customer and charge them for the stacking, if you deliver wood in this manner to the customer there can never be any doubt or arguing how much was delivered, protecting you and the customer.



That’s the way we did it in the 70’s and 80’s and not one time did my dad and I ever have a complaint. Not once! In fact, we had more business than we could handle.

 

[Bobdude1]

Normal pricing right now around here in Ct. is between 250-300/cord. I buy mine kiln dried, so it goes up to 475/cord + delivery fee (The place is about 30mi from me) but I don't have to worry about it. I've bought so-called seasoned wood only to have the stuff not burn great and/or sizzle and ooze (and YES, I do keep it covered inside a shed). I try to buy "rounds" when possible so I can split/season myself but they're few and far between around here.

 

[Riverbanks]

Have you thought about a bigger shed? Buy green, I do, get it delivered in the winter, it gives me something to do when we get a sunny yet cold day to enjoy outside to stack the wood. The price difference is incredible

 

[DonTee]

@Bobdude1
What is the moisture content of your kiln dried wood when it’s delivered? Just curious

 

[Bobdude1]

@Bobdude1
What is the moisture content of your kiln dried wood when it’s delivered? Just curious

Honestly, I don't know. I do know it's super dry, though.

 

[DonTee]

I’m just curious what Mc the kiln dried wood is dried to. I know some is cooked for just long enough to kill the bugs. If they’re kiln drying it for longer, to actually season it, I wonder what Mc number they shoot for.

 

[tlc1976]

$60-$80 per face cord is what I’m seeing, typical for this area. Delivery negotiable based on distance.

It’s very rare I see anyone selling by a true full cord. Cord here means face cord, give or take. My dad gripes about how every year he finds out he’s been shorted by the time he gets it stacked, but everyone seems to play by the same rules so just buy more than you need. Like last time he ordered 6 and ended up with around 4.5. From some the prices I’m seeing posted, it’s still a deal.

 

[Bobdude1]

I’m just curious what Mc the kiln dried wood is dried to. I know some is cooked for just long enough to kill the bugs. If they’re kiln drying it for longer, to actually season it, I wonder what Mc number they shoot for.

They said not above 20%.

 

[stoveliker]

Even then, measure it because many only measure it on the outside of the split, rather than resplitting it and measuring in the center as one should.