Ovalizing the liner reduces the cross sectional area. Instead of doing that in my 7X11 tile lined chimneys I went with 5.5" round liners and they both draft like vacuum cleaners.
May be over before I get started
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fire_man
Minister of Fire
What bugs me is when a pipe is ovalized, the manufacturers go up a pipe size. So if you need a 6" pipe, they will start with a 7" one and ovalize it. My chimney is 25' tall, so I guess ovalizing won't harm the draft as much as a short chimney.
What do you mean by an offset - in my case the flue is not perfectly centered in the smoke chamber, does that count as an offset?
What do you mean by an offset - in my case the flue is not perfectly centered in the smoke chamber, does that count as an offset?
That would be another great option ! I just can't see paying all that extra money for removing the tiles, there's no reason for it.
Our liners start out at 6". It's the same liner, they just squish it.
If the flue is straight then you will be fine regardless of where it enters the smoke chamber.
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fire_man
Minister of Fire
That's what I want to do, use a 5.5" liner but Woodstock did not recommend it. In fact there is specific mention in the manual not to go less than a 6" pipe.
That is in all manuals. It is the manual for my stove. And the hole in the top of the stove inside the flue collar is exactly 5.5" in diameter even though the flue collar is six inches.
Have you actually talked to Woodstock about using a 5.5" with that chimney which is at least four feet taller than the one they designed the stove for?
Have you actually talked to Woodstock about using a 5.5" with that chimney which is at least four feet taller than the one they designed the stove for?
fire_man
Minister of Fire
Woodstock told me if I wanted a 6" equivalent pipe draft, their distributor (Olympic Chimney) would start with a 6.5" pipe and ovalize to 5"x8.15".
Maybe if you are just squishing a little bit it's less of a big deal to just use a 6" pipe. But I think BB is right, squishing reduces the area.
Just take a rubber band and make a circle with it. Look at the area. Then squish it oval, it reduces the area.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
Yes I did have that conversation. They recommend a 15 foot minimum chimney, so my 25 footer is 10 feet taller which should draft even better. But they specifically told me the Palladian was only tested with either a 6" or 7" pipe and would not recommend any other, including a 5.5" which I mentioned. And the required front hearth clearance is 2" highr for a 6" pipe than for a 7" pipe.
Yes to maintain the same volume and draft in an oval you need to upsize the liner. Many times by doing this you increase the cost of the liner by at least the amount that it would cost to break out. And I wonder if the guys that are dead set against breaking out have ever seen the outside of an old liner that has had wood burnt through it for years. Lots of times when the pieces are coming out the bottom you cannot tell the difference between the inside and the outside both are black and have creosote on them. That is why if we see a chimney where the liner is in bad shape and dirty we often will break them out anyway to get all the dirt out. And at least from us breakout doesn't cost that much usually only $150. To me that cost is well worth knowing that all that creosote is out of there and that you have plenty of room for the proper insulation.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
I hear you bholler. In my case not one single fire was lit in that flue and unfortunately there is another nearby clay liner in the chimney. I'm gonna have a sweep take a look and see what he thinks.
Have you ever installed a 6" insulated liner in a 7 by 11 flue? How bad is it, can it be squished a little?
Have you ever installed a 6" insulated liner in a 7 by 11 flue? How bad is it, can it be squished a little?
I have never fit one in wrapped no lots of times the bare liner hardly makes it if the tiles are not aligned well. We have dropped some bare for oil or gas furnaces and then poured insulation. In those applications the insulation is not required for zero clearance on the outside of the masonry so the small area that has to little insulation is not as much of a concern and the rest of the pipe being insulated still adds to the performance a great deal. But for wood we would break out if possible an if not we would ovalize.
It's very likely that a 6" liner will go down. I have done it lots of times. If the liner is nice and straight, foil faced insulation wrapped tight, and the mesh pulled tight it can happen. Sometimes you kinda have to twist it as it goes down. If your tiles are misaligned, it isn't gonna work though. You can do what ever you want, but that price you got is out of control! I am very well aware of how an oval liner is less desirable. But the fact is, you will never be able to tell any difference. Wether you use a 6" round, a slightly ovalized 6" or a 5.5" liner. I'll probably get attacked for it but its a fact. This is the real world here, sometimes you just have to do what it takes, as long as its safe. If you've got $2,800 bucks to spare then go for it, but you should be able to get it done for less than $1500. With the same end results.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
Sorry - I did not intend to hijack this thread. Kahuna1 is the original Poster, but our situations are very similar. Kahuna has an 8x13 clay liner - Is that ID or OD?
that would be od and webby is right if it is actually 7" id and the liners are perfectly straight then yes it will work. But I have never had it work with a wrapped liner Ad I agree that sometimes you have to do what you have to do but I don't understand the hesitation to break out the liners and do it right. I do agree that $2800 is to high if it is with breakout and insulated heavy flex it should be about $2000 give or take a little.
We order our liners in 25' lengths in straight pieces. It makes it nice! And we don't use heavy wall liners. We have, but Just don't see a need for it anymore. This also keeps costs way down for the customer. When they are already spending $3K on an insert, its hard to sell em on a $2K liner! We do most for $1K or so if they are buying a stove.
The lightest liners we will us for a wood stove is the medium weight liners like olimpia hybrid liner. We have seen to many light wall liners burnt out pretty quickly. Just our choice and we tell our customers that and that they can get a cheaper liner elsewhere but this is what we feel is best. I know there are lots of light wall liners out there that work well for a long time but we choose not to do them. We do use ventinox for oil and gas furnaces but that is a totally different application.
You would think in all the years here, we would have seen one. Never have.
I have seen 2 this season one was replaced under warrantee I don't know about the other one we didn't fix it
one of them did but not the one that was replaced under warrantee. That one they just plain burnt out. It was forever flex we pulled it and replaced it with aromor flex olimpia gave them credit for the original liner.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
Guess they should change the name to sometimes-forever flex.
Where did it burn out in the liner and how did you know it was burned out - from an inspection or was there a problem?
Where did it burn out in the liner and how did you know it was burned out - from an inspection or was there a problem?
it burnt out just above the tee it was insulated with thermix and when it burnt through it let insulation come in and that plugged the tee up.
Any chance it was damaged when it was installed? Or a lot of bad flue fires? I have never, ever, heard of this happening. Sounds very odd to me.
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