More Follow up from Stihl dealer re: fuel

[Kenster]

I emailed some follow up questions to my friend, the Stihl dealer in Dallas. Below is my email to him followed by his reply:

Matt, I have a couple of follow up questions for you.
A lot of guys in the forums are using 100LL av gas, which does not have ethanol and is high octane. At $5.65 or so a gallon, it's costly but since a two gallon can will last me for many months the cost isn't much of a factor and I figure it is much better for the long term health of my 390. What do you think?

Stabil now makes a gas additive that supposedly neutralizes the bad effects of ethanol. What's your take on such additives? Does Stihl have a policy on additives?

Thanks,
Ken

Ken,

I would stick with Stihl’s recommendations on fuel. If you use the Stihl oil the additive is not necessary. Stihl’s oil is formulated with a stabilizer in it. The 10% ethanol is fine. The bigger problem is letting the fuel get too old or store it in a container that is not sealed properly.



We do have a product called Motomix. It is premix fuel for handheld equipment with no ethanol. It is 92 octane and mixed with the Stihl Ultra Synthetic oil. Shelf life after opening is about 2 years. Works great for someone who doesn’t use much fuel and it is a much better fuel than pump gas.

It sells at most Stihl dealers for 8.99/quart.

Matt

 

[smokinj]

The av gas is nothing new and has been used by many for years. Now the stihl gas would be 35.96 a gallon. The dealership are good for the most part but I already know the av gas to work very well just thought I couldn't afford it.

 

[peakbagger]

A friend of mine used to work for an airport on the "ramp" . There was a large amount of fuel intentionally dumped from planes that may have been contaminated with water. The pilot check ther tanks during prelfight and if there is any evidence of water, they dump some of the tank. My friend used to use it in his car that was made long before catalytic converters. I would be curious on how they dispose of it these days. It seperates from water unlike gas with ethanol so it wouldnt be that hard to decant.

 

[Kenster]

Back when I was flying small aircraft, it was indeed part of our preflight to check for water contamination in the fuel. There was a spring loaded drain in the bottom of each wing. Water from condensation inside the wing would, of course, settle to the bottom of the wing. We had a tester that we pushed up against the drain plug and it would catch about a quarter cup of fuel. Markings on the tester (like a big test tube) would indicate if water was present.
If it was we'd just let a stream of gas pour out on the ramp for a few seconds until we were testing pure fuel. Not very environmentally friendly. In all my experience I never once saw anyone trying to catch and preserve the contaminated fuel to be used in another machine.

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Ethanol is approved to increase to 15 percent in each gallon of gasoline. When this happens, no chainsaw maker that I know of has any options to avoid damaging their saws' engines. Id love to know otherwise, if anyone knows.

 

[smokinj]

Ethanol is approved to increase to 15 percent in each gallon of gasoline. When this happens, no chainsaw maker that I know of has any options to avoid damaging their saws' engines. Id love to know otherwise, if anyone knows.

You are correct!

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I've started using this. Expensive, I know. But I don't use my saw all day every day:

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=B+0125638&catID=150

 

[RNLA]

Lots of companies are coming out with their "solutions or remedies" for ethanol. I believe standard gas will be a problem with our saws but it is hard to justify expensive gas to combat the problems. I'm looking at the 5-6 dollar/ gallon gas available at the local petroleum distributor.....

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

I filled up my Porsche 911 many years ago with AV gas. I think I drove 20 miles & the plugs were fouling out from the Tetraethyl lead. So much for that experiment, Randy

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Well, since there's no lead in gasoline anymore, your car may work better.

What gasoline from your petroleum dealer? Maybe I should call mine.

 

[JustWood]

(broken link removed to http://www.k100fueltreatment.com/main.html)

I'm giving this a try.
Just bought some today.
A few mechanics I talked to say its good stuff!

 

[smokinj]

http://www.k100fueltreatment.com/main.html

I'm giving this a try.
Just bought some today.
A few mechanics I talked to say its good stuff!

How many oz per gallon?

 

[JustWood]

32 oz treats 80 gallon of gas.

 

[smokinj]

32 oz treats 80 gallon of gas.

Darn sure need a good plan for when it changes to 15 pecent.

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Darn sure need a good plan for when it changes to 15 pecent.

That's the issue. No one has yet developed, or at least announced that they've developed, a solution for E15 gasoline blends. It's going to have a major impact to a lot of tools that use 2 cycle engines.

 

[Corey]

Darn sure need a good plan for when it changes to 15 pecent.

That's the issue. No one has yet developed, or at least announced that they've developed, a solution for E15 gasoline blends.

Ok - you're hearing it here first...here is my grand, highly technical solution for E15 gasoline is..."turn the mixture screws out about 1/4 turn, or as indicated by your preferred method of tuning".

I've never had a bit of trouble over years of running E10 in practically everything I own, and running E85 in my 'non flex fuel' car. Stihl specifically quotes E10 as "no problem" so I can't imagine e15 is going to make much difference besides raising octane and being even cleaner burning. It would be a cold day in he77 before I paid $36 bucks a gallon for some 'special gas', or cut wood in a cloud of toxic lead from av gas. If for some reason my Husky won't burn E15, I'll put it up for sale and buy a saw which will...or better yet, just skip E15 all together and jump to E85. 105 octane and cooler burning would make for a hot-rod saw. A more powerful saw and shafting the oil terrorists...win-win in my book.

 

[smokinj]

Darn sure need a good plan for when it changes to 15 pecent.

That's the issue. No one has yet developed, or at least announced that they've developed, a solution for E15 gasoline blends.

Ok - you're hearing it here first...here is my grand, highly technical solution for E15 gasoline is..."turn the mixture screws out about 1/4 turn, or as indicated by your preferred method of tuning".

I've never had a bit of trouble over years of running E10 in practically everything I own, and running E85 in my 'non flex fuel' car. Stihl specifically quotes E10 as "no problem" so I can't imagine e15 is going to make much difference besides raising octane and being even cleaner burning. It would be a cold day in he77 before I paid $36 bucks a gallon for some 'special gas', or cut wood in a cloud of toxic lead from av gas. If for some reason my Husky won't burn E15, I'll put it up for sale and buy a saw which will...or better yet, just skip E15 all together and jump to E85. 105 octane and cooler burning would make for a hot-rod saw. A more powerful saw and shafting the oil terrorists...win-win in my book.

Oh but they are saying 15 percent will void the warranty.

 

[CTYank]

My bet is that a fractional ounce of acetone per gallon will keep the ethanol/water solution (if there is any) from settling out of solution in the gasoline. The way that "dry-gas" works.

It's possible that the major oil companies could provide some advice as to making their product compatible with various generations of chainsaws. Whatever, the Feds, Big Oil and the chainsaw mfgs should really research this cooperatively and then help out their paying customers. Yeah, right.

How can we point these folks to potential profit? That'll get 'em moving.

 

[smokinj]

My bet is that a fractional ounce of acetone per gallon will keep the ethanol/water solution (if there is any) from settling out of solution in the gasoline. The way that "dry-gas" works.

It's possible that the major oil companies could provide some advice as to making their product compatible with various generations of chainsaws. Whatever, the Feds, Big Oil and the chainsaw mfgs should really research this cooperatively and then help out their paying customers. Yeah, right.

How can we point these folks to potential profit? That'll get 'em moving.

I think your on to something there! I think stihl is crying for just that!

 

[wkpoor]

I filled up my Porsche 911 many years ago with AV gas. I think I drove 20 miles & the plugs were fouling out from the Tetraethyl lead. So much for that experiment, Randy

I'm an A&P mechanic. Have used 100LL for over 20yrs in all kinds of engines. Never yet saw an engine that didn't like it. Most of the time the plugs stay so clean you could return them to the store after several hours of use. LL stands for Low Lead. Could not possibly have fouled out your plugs. In fact I have used it in situations where the problem was pump gas was fouling plugs and AvGas curred it. When you get down to it there is no better fuel considering the price even at 5.00 or so a gallon. I use sump fuel from the trucks that pump it.
I also only use Jet A in my diesels.

 

[smokinj]

I filled up my Porsche 911 many years ago with AV gas. I think I drove 20 miles & the plugs were fouling out from the Tetraethyl lead. So much for that experiment, Randy

I'm an A&P mechanic. Have used 100LL for over 20yrs in all kinds of engines. Never yet saw an engine that didn't like it. Most of the time the plugs stay so clean you could return them to the store after several hours of use. LL stands for Low Lead. Could not possibly have fouled out your plugs. In fact I have used it in situations where the problem was pump gas was fouling plugs and AvGas curred it. When you get down to it there is no better fuel considering the price even at 5.00 or so a gallon. I use sump fuel from the trucks that pump it.
I also only use Jet A in my diesels.

Agree should not been anything with the fuel fouling out the plugs. Porsche it could be many different things to cause that.
Big redd using it for years with great results as well. Don't get any simpler than that! lol

 

[Corey]

Oh but they are saying 15 percent will void the warranty.

Of course they are...have you seen the way E10 gets blamed for everything from fouled spark plugs, corrosion, to "water in the gas", "blown engines", making kids walk with a limp, growing hair on your palms and shrinking your clothes in the wash?

It's simply a business move to cut the liability for any saw malfunction. Thanks for standing behind your product, Stihl! I'd like to talk to the company president who allowed a product so shoddy it is "no problem" to run 10% Ethanol, but would possibly fall apart and not be warrantied at 15%.

It's almost identical to the whining we've heard from auto manufacturers for years about how they can't make more fuel efficient and safer vehicles. Which is business talk for "We could do it in a heartbeat if there were profit in it."

Though now that Iran and Ahmadinejad are taking over OPEC, I'm really considering converting my saw over to E85. At least they will be using much less of my money to build nuclear bombs to kill us.

 

[smokinj]

Oh but they are saying 15 percent will void the warranty.

Of course they are...have you seen the way E10 gets blamed for everything from fouled spark plugs, corrosion, to "water in the gas", "blown engines", making kids walk with a limp, growing hair on your palms and shrinking your clothes in the wash?

It's simply a business move to cut the liability for any saw malfunction. Thanks for standing behind your product, Stihl! I'd like to talk to the company president who allowed a product so shoddy it is "no problem" to run 10% Ethanol, but would possibly fall apart and not be warrantied at 15%.

It's almost identical to the whining we've heard from auto manufacturers for years about how they can't make more fuel efficient and safer vehicles. Which is business talk for "We could do it in a heartbeat if there were profit in it."

Though now that Iran and Ahmadinejad are taking over OPEC, I'm really considering converting my saw over to E85. At least they will be using much less of my money to build nuclear bombs to kill us.

Oh I think your ready to deep into it. Who is going to prove that you used 15 percent anyways (stihl will have to cover it). I feel it is a real concern here. On the other hand you get that e85 rolling I sure would like to see it. I have a few dollors in my saws and are not under warranty! So excuse me that the OPEC is really not for this Fourm!

 

[laynes69]

I bought a stihl fs55 trimmer 2 years ago and it wouldn't prime this year. Ended up I needed a new carb from stihl and they said 19 out of 20 needed replaced. From what they showed me the fuel was corroding and eating the insides of the carbs. I'm now running a special stabilizer they recommended to try and stop the problems. There's no reason why after 2 years it should have happened. Either it's the fuel or a direct issue that stihl doesn't want to address. Luckily the carb was only 25.00 and now it runs better than when new. Still I wasn't happy. I paid for something I figured wouldn't give me problems and it has been one of biggest pieces I have owned.

 

[smokinj]

I bought a stihl fs55 trimmer 2 years ago and it wouldn't prime this year. Ended up I needed a new carb from stihl and they said 19 out of 20 needed replaced. From what they showed me the fuel was corroding and eating the insides of the carbs. I'm now running a special stabilizer they recommended to try and stop the problems. There's no reason why after 2 years it should have happened. Either it's the fuel or a direct issue that stihl doesn't want to address. Luckily the carb was only 25.00 and now it runs better than when new. Still I wasn't happy. I paid for something I figured wouldn't give me problems and it has been one of biggest pieces I have owned.

Are you leaving fuel in or when storing or not?