My insert journey-FIRST FIRE!

[Iembalm4aLiving]

Hey gang.....I had another thread that evolved into an insert search so I've dedicated a new thread to the process.

Since I'm new to the woodburning stove/insert scene, I welcome all comments and suggestions.

My house is a 1970's split level, approx. 1800 sq. feet. The fireplace is in the living room, the lowest level of the home. The living room is 12x20. In line with the living room is the kitchen, 12x12 a few steps up from the living room. So the direct area that the insert will heat is approx. 12x32.

My fireplace opening is 27" h 34" w 20" deep


First installer e-mailed me his quote.

He has several Napoleon 1402's that he's looking to move....so of course his quote is for installing that unit.

napoleon 1402 $ 1,862
26’ x 6†316TI liner 465
1/2†foil faced insulation 187
“fire-safe†plate 88
6†elbow with band strap 52
SS Armor mesh 30
18Ga SS top plate 30
6†SS top plate clamp 17

Installation (includes cleaning flue) 867
tax 177

Total $ 3800 (rounded off for our purposes)





2nd installer's quote


Installer no. 2 does not sell the inserts, but happily installs them.

His quote:

25ft. of 6" stainless liner
cap
top plate
insulation
connector adapter
labor
TOTAL....$1525

Obviously, plus the cost of the insert chosen.



No. 3 is due this evening....stay tuned!

 

[BrowningBAR]

The installation costs seem about right. Nothing shocking there. The price on the Napoleon insert is about right as well.

 

[karl]

Neither one of them say block off plate. Read on here and see what we are talking about and make sure they install one. A block off plate is like a top plate but it goes on the bottom where the liner enters the chimney. It's a must for serious heat out put.

 

[raybonz]

The installation costs seem about right. Nothing shocking there. The price on the Napoleon insert is about right as well.

You've got to be the smartest dog on the forum!



Ray

 

[Iembalm4aLiving]

Okay, guy no. 3 left a while ago:


A few things bothered me. He came out, measured, and quoted verbally. Never handed me a written quote. Doesn't think insulation for the liner is necessary.

He was the cheapest quote of the three ($3200 for an Avalon Ranier installed) He also offers Quadrafires and Buck, but couldn't remember the prices for the Quad on his floor.......really????

Anyway, I guess it comes down to installer No. 1 and his Napoleon 1402 or No. 2 and whatever insert I decide to go with....

I stopped at another shop today and saw an Osburn 2200 that looked really nice. I liked the bay window design. I was quoted about 2,300 with the surround.

Has anyone ordered an insert off the net? The idea of avoiding some sales tax is appealing......

 

[dafattkidd]

I bought my insert at dynamitebuys.com. I had a great experience. They carry osburns and napoleons as well as other brands. Best Price I found on the net with great customer service. Osburn 2400 was the largest insert I could fit in my fireplace. I m very happy with my decision. Good luck.

 

[pharmsaler]

Okay, guy no. 3 left a while ago:


A few things bothered me. He came out, measured, and quoted verbally. Never handed me a written quote. Doesn't think insulation for the liner is necessary.

He was the cheapest quote of the three ($3200 for an Avalon Ranier installed) He also offers Quadrafires and Buck, but couldn't remember the prices for the Quad on his floor.......really????

Anyway, I guess it comes down to installer No. 1 and his Napoleon 1402 or No. 2 and whatever insert I decide to go with....

I stopped at another shop today and saw an Osburn 2200 that looked really nice. I liked the bay window design. I was quoted about 2,300 with the surround.

Has anyone ordered an insert off the net? The idea of avoiding some sales tax is appealing......

Where are you at in NE Ohio, I just bought my Enviro in Ravenna, and I highly reccomend dealing with the brand and also the dealer. Insert was $2200 , Liner and Installis $1250......Don't go with the napolean, very cheap and basic

 

[BrowningBAR]

Okay, guy no. 3 left a while ago:


A few things bothered me. He came out, measured, and quoted verbally. Never handed me a written quote. Doesn't think insulation for the liner is necessary.

He was the cheapest quote of the three ($3200 for an Avalon Ranier installed) He also offers Quadrafires and Buck, but couldn't remember the prices for the Quad on his floor.......really????

Anyway, I guess it comes down to installer No. 1 and his Napoleon 1402 or No. 2 and whatever insert I decide to go with....

I stopped at another shop today and saw an Osburn 2200 that looked really nice. I liked the bay window design. I was quoted about 2,300 with the surround.

Has anyone ordered an insert off the net? The idea of avoiding some sales tax is appealing......

Where are you at in NE Ohio, I just bought my Enviro in Ravenna, and I highly reccomend dealing with the brand and also the dealer. Insert was $2200 , Liner and Installis $1250......Don't go with the napolean, very cheap and basic

Wait a minute. There is nothing wrong with the Napoleon. It is a capable heater.

 

[pharmsaler]

yes you're right..there is nothing wrong with it. I just think it is ugly and for the same price you can get a slightly larger stove more efficient and is cast iron instead of steel.

 

[BrowningBAR]

yes you're right..there is nothing wrong with it. I just think it is ugly and for the same price you can get a slightly larger stove more efficient and is cast iron instead of steel.

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder and some folks prefer steel to cast iron.

 

[pharmsaler]

Eye of the beholder????

So some people look at a glass half full and some others look at it being half empty........I see it as a damn glass with water in it


I wont argue with you on function........but it is ugly

 

[krex1010]

yes you're right..there is nothing wrong with it. I just think it is ugly and for the same price you can get a slightly larger stove more efficient and is cast iron instead of steel.

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder and some folks prefer steel to cast iron.

a big ol +1 on that. Napoleon stoves are solid heating appliances. I could very well say that enviro stove are ugly....but I wouldn't want to insult anyone that owns one.

 

[raybonz]

Eye of the beholder????

So some people look at a glass half full and some others look at it being half empty........I see it as a damn glass with water in it


I wont argue with you on function........but it is ugly

When it's down around zero with the snow flying and you have a woodstove sitting there with the fire dancing they're all beautiful and mesmerizing.. I doubt we'd see anything more than what blazes behind that ceramic glass.. Just something to think about..

Ray

 

[pharmsaler]

my goodness people since when is wrong to have an opinion. It's just that...we are all entitled to one. Just because someone expresses theirs does not make it gospel. I didn't realize this forum was a bunch of ladies bickering about their home made apple strudel.

 

[krex1010]

Pharmsaler......how can you highly recommend a stove you just bought? It's September. And how can you recommend against buying a stove you have never owned? A good friend of mine is a certified sweep and he says napoleons are some of the most reliable and easiest to maintain stoves available. Also you said enviro stoves are more efficient, how do you know? Are you quoting a brochure? Efficiency claims by manufactures aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Also steel stoves are not inferior to cast iron stoves. Not trying to start anything here but Napoleon stoves are just as good as your enviro and my pacific energy.

 

[krex1010]

my goodness people since when is wrong to have an opinion. It's just that...we are all entitled to one. Just because someone expresses theirs does not make it gospel. I didn't realize this forum was a bunch of ladies bickering about their home made apple strudel.

I hate apple strudel lol

 

[pharmsaler]

OMG! back off! if you really want to get technical here, my biggest comment was that they are UGLY. Go ask your sweep friend if he is certified on how pretty stoves look.

When things are in black and white you can interpret anything you want....My complaint is that napoleans are ugly..and I have the right to voice that

Second, I said the enviro has a slightly larger firebox...This is true.

Yeah I quoted the efficiency rates out of a brochure 84% vs what is napoleans? OH Yeah they don't publish them.

If you read anything else on here about how their install went or how the move air from room to room, or even how they stack wood..............this is all opinions of theirs...there is no scientific data that supports their claims..and mine neither

You ever hear somebody say that all babies are cute....THEY ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH there are some ugly baby's out there.

 

[krex1010]

OMG! back off! if you really want to get technical here, my biggest comment was that they are UGLY. Go ask your sweep friend if he is certified on how pretty stoves look.

When things are in black and white you can interpret anything you want....My complaint is that napoleans are ugly..and I have the right to voice that

Second, I said the enviro has a slightly larger firebox...This is true.

Yeah I quoted the efficiency rates out of a brochure 84% vs what is napoleans? OH Yeah they don't publish them.

If you read anything else on here about how their install went or how the move air from room to room, or even how they stack wood..............this is all opinions of theirs...there is no scientific data that supports their claims..and mine neither

You ever hear somebody say that all babies are cute....THEY ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH there are some ugly baby's out there.

Opinions are fine, and in my opinion, I think that someone who comes out and tells someone to stay away from a product they have never used, and highly recommends a product they have never used is being reckless with their opinion. People here generally try to help each other out and share information and experiences. If you want to insult people's taste and give out baseless recommendations be my guest, but don't be surprised when someone calls you out on it.

 

[begreen]

yes you're right..there is nothing wrong with it. I just think it is ugly and for the same price you can get a slightly larger stove more efficient and is cast iron instead of steel.

I have to differ as well. The 1402 is a capable unit. The Boston is very nice, but it would be fairer in price and style to compare the 1402 to the Kodiak, which should price out about the same. Certainly worth considering. Enviro makes good stoves too.

 

[pharmsaler]

To the original poster, I apologize for calling your choice of stoves ugly, how dare I have such a crude opinion. and also please forgive me for supposedly making a recommendation based on my own personal experience thus far and the one and half year of research that I had put forth in making my own decision. By far, I was not trying to mislead you in any such way but rather just give you my opinion. I went through several emails that I exchanged with dealers and tech support staff of manufactures. yes I actually emailed manufactures and received responses into their spec presented and again made an educated decision to purchase the stove that I did. Below is one of the emails I thought was very non biased from a dealer. Hope it helps.

"I personaly like the boston for a few reasons. The secondary air tubes have an extra "fin" on them that help make the fire roll and look fuller. This might not serve much purpose but is an added bounus. The boston uses a tried and true firebox(same as the kodiac). the handels and hardware are solid and smoth working. Unlike most stoves The ash dump is truly air tight, this is important because you are buying an airtight stove you have more control over the burn When you have less air leaks.

As for the Efficency it is overstated because of the inharent potential energy convertion present in wood( it takes energy to dry the wood to start the combustion prosses. )
The important number to compare is the grams per hr emmision as this is a fair comparison done by the epa not the manufacture.

 

[krex1010]

As was mentioned earlier a block off plate should be installed, this really helps any inserts performance, but for some reason a lot of installers don't do it and some will even tell you it's not necessary. Glad to see you are having your liner insulated. The 1402 is a good stove, so is the rainier, although the rainier is a bit smaller than the 1402. 1.9 cubic ft firebox in the rainier compared to 2.25 in the Napoleon, the enviro Boston is a 2.5 cube box. It seems to me that most manufacturers these days are making quality stoves, it seems that most people here are happy with their choices, getting a properly sized stove and having it installed properly is more important than the brand in most cases.

 

[BrowningBAR]

The installation costs seem about right. Nothing shocking there. The price on the Napoleon insert is about right as well.

You've got to be the smartest dog on the forum!



Ray

I am far smarter than the human that feeds me.

 

[jatoxico]

Let us know what you decide. Alot of good stoves out there but trying to compare all the different manufacturers can make you need a chill pill..

 

[Iembalm4aLiving]

Okay, wife saw the Osburn 2200 and declared it the most attractive of the bunch. I have to agree that the bay window design is nice. The size is good for our situation.

I think that installer No. 2 is going to get my vote. Of the three I met with, he is the most willing to accommodate any requests I might have (block-off plate, careful cutting of my cultured stone fireplace facing, etc.)

Now I have to find the best way to get one delivered to my door......the one local dealer who carries them has not impressed me. It seems every time I stop in there's a guy who says first thing "I'm just here helping out today." Of course, they are not exactly experts on the product they are helping to sell that day.

I'm in Lake County, Ohio if anyone is familiar with the area.

Thanks!

 

[krex1010]

Your experience with dealers not knowing their products is pretty common, a few years ago when I was shopping I realized that By reading the brochures I knew more about the products than most of the people working at the stove shops. So make sure you do your own homework so you can make an educTed decision without depending on a dealer, I know I would have bought an undersized stove if I had listened to most of the people I dealt with. Goody luck!