Napoleon 1402 Insert Newbie

[Scatcraft7]

I've been searching and searching this site for as much info as I can both before and since the stove was installed. First time posting.

After being in the house for a few years I finally got the woodstove in the house connected (previous owner had a rotted galvanized liner). The stove is installed in basement masonry chimney with a new SS 6" liner and cap. It's 19' smooth walled insulated liner with (2) 45deg angles to connect to the stove. I've been having issues getting the stove to temp. I have a magnetic thermometer on top of the stove, which is fairly accurate based on infrared gun. My basement is large at about 1800sqft and insulated. I can get the room from 62-64 up to 70, but not until about 6 hours of the stove running.

The wood I have is 2 years seasoned and dry, mostly under 10% moisture and definitely under 20% moisture, verified by a moisture meter, and covered in wood shed with a tarp. I also bring in about 1/4 cord and store inside which is even drier. All wood is mixed hardwoods, mostly oak, ash, maple and beech.

When lighting the fire, I line the base with balled up newspaper, covered by kindling and then smaller 2"-3" wide packed loosly in a grid pattern with damper wide open. Once the fire is roaring and gets up to about 450-500, I'll close the damper 1/2 way and most likely time to repack which I do with 3"-4" wide pieces. Temps stay around there for a while, but then start to slowly go down as the wood burns down. Once I have a good hot bed of coals, I reload. I will open the damper to full and pack the stove usually N&S as I find it burns hotter longer. I will usually lay 3-4" pieces on the coals with larger 4-5s on top. Once it gets going again, the temp will get back up to 400-500, but never higher even if I leave the damper open. So I usually close damper 1/2 way again so the wood will last a couple hours.

1. Am I doing something wrong?
2. Should I get a lot of smoke out the chimney when initially lighting or reloading?
3. Is 400-500 too low for creosite build up?
4. Should I reload sooner than just a bed of coals? The wood is definitely burning too quickly (at least I think so), but that could be because the damper is 1/2 open. Overnight I'll pack it in before bed around 11p, let it get going and choke it down. When I get up at 5a, there is only a few hot coals left and not hot enough for the blowers to kick on.

Sorry for all the questions. Thank you in advance for all your expert advice.

 

[begreen]

Basement installations can be a problem sometimes due to negative pressure. Is the chimney on an exterior wall? Is the liner insulated? Has it always smoked when opening the door, or just sometimes?

On thing to try is top down lighting. This warms up the flue quickly with less smoke but it won't solve negative pressure if this is the case. One thing to try is to open a near by window and see if that livens up the fire.

Where on the insert is the temp being measured?

 

[Scatcraft7]

Liner is insulated, and chimney is outside of house completely exterior in a corner. I'm not getting smoke inside, but out the top of chimney when lighting or reloading. I also heat up the secondary burn chamber and up the flue pipe prior to lighting when cold. I do have a window cracked about 5' from the stove.

I'm taking temp on the top of the stove as far back as I can. I know I should be taking it on the flue itself about 18" up, which I have and that's even colder. For example, its 6pm. I loaded stove a little before 4pm (call it 2.5hrs). I'm down to basically hot coals and some charred wood. Temp on top of stove is about 310 (I had it up to 475), I took cover off and checked the flue and it was 245.

I certainly expected more heat from this. I'm not sure if its the stove, flue/chimney configuration, or me. I think I mentioned before I have a 45deg bend off the top of stove, about 3' of straight flue, then a soft 45 (roughly - its flex liner) up the chimney.

 

[bigealta]

After a couple reloads the room will warm up and when all the interior surfaces are warmed you will feel more heat from the stove. Give it a chance at longer running with a few hot reloads.

 

[Scatcraft7]

Oh I'm certainly not giving up. I love it. I'm wondering if I should just keep reloading with smaller pieces of wood and leave the damper full open or close to it, to keep temps high.

 

[bholler]

Oh I'm certainly not giving up. I love it. I'm wondering if I should just keep reloading with smaller pieces of wood and leave the damper full open or close to it, to keep temps high.

Closing the air down will actually produce much more heat in the room. At 19' I would say you will most likely only be using the bottom 1/4 of the air after startup

 

[bigealta]

i'd try the damper somewhere in the 1/2 closed range after it's going for 10 minutes or so. Look at the fire and see how it's burning. Too much air can actually cool a fire down.

Post some pics of your burns and we can help get u dialed in.

 

[dafattkidd]

Post some pictures of your set up and of the stove fully loaded. Shutting down the air control will produce more heat. Burn times are impacted by wood species and the size of the cuts as well as moisture content.

 

[begreen]

I'm not getting smoke inside, but out the top of chimney when lighting or reloading.

That's normal. The firebox needs to get hot enough for secondary combustion.

I'm taking temp on the top of the stove as far back as I can.

Is the blower off when checking the temperature? If not, that is cooling down the top 100-150º.

Is there an insulated block-off plate sealing off the damper area? If not there will be quite a bit of heat loss keeping the exterior chimney warmed up. If there is room behind the insert then putting some kaowool or roxul insulation behind the insert will also help.

Are the basement walls insulated?

 

[Scatcraft7]

I'll post pics tomorrow of reload tonight, and again in the morning once I crank it back up.

Temps are taken when blower is on.

I made an aluminum block off plate and insulated it with rockwool. Basement is spray foam insulated.

 

[Scatcraft7]

This is 2hrs 45min since I last reloaded. Damper was at 1/2 open. 30 min after reload she was up to 450. Now at 250. I’ll post more pics after reloaded

 

[bholler]

This is 2hrs 45min since I last reloaded. Damper was at 1/2 open. 30 min after reload she was up to 450. Now at 250. I’ll post more pics after reloaded
View attachment 324043

Close the air further

 

[Scatcraft7]

Reloaded with 3 smaller logs in the coals and 2 larger logs above n&s. Damper full open. After 10 min she’s up to 480 (blower turned off). I closed the damper 2/3 closed 1/3 open this time.

***FYI - each log moisture levels were between 9-14%

 

[bholler]

Reloaded with 3 smaller logs in the coals and 2 larger logs above n&s. Damper full open. After 10 min she’s up to 480 (blower turned off). I closed the damper 2/3 closed 1/3 open this time.

***FYI - each log moisture levels were between 9-14%


View attachment 324044View attachment 324045

What is your procedure for using the moisture meter?

 

[Scatcraft7]

I test both ends that were saw cut and random spots at the splits

 

[bholler]

I test both ends that were saw cut and random spots at the splits

To get a real reading you need to resplit the wood and test the inside. Outside measurements mean nothing really

 

[begreen]

I closed the damper 2/3 closed 1/3 open this time.

Close it down further. If it's quite cold outside, once the fire is going strong you may be able to close it down to 1/8th open or all the way closed.

 

[begreen]

Temps are taken when blower is on.

I made an aluminum block off plate and insulated it with rockwool. Basement is spray foam insulated.

Temps taken with the blower off will be more meaningful. Or move the thermometer to the front face over the door. Kudos for putting in the block off plate and insulating the basement.

 

[Scatcraft7]

I’ll certainly split some logs again and check moisture in the center.

I let it burn overnight loaded at 11p and at 5a I had a pile of ash and coal which I suppose is normal. I moved burning embers to the front loaded with some newspaper kindling to get it going. Reloaded with 3 logs about 2-3” once it got going and closed damper to 1/4 open. Got temp up to 600. Reloaded with 4- 4-5” logs. And was able to get up to 650. An hour in with damper at 1/8 open now and staying at the 600 mark. Heated the basement from 66-70 in no time. The difference I think was I left blower off until it stayed consistent at 600.
My thoughts were 1. I wasn’t letting it get hot enough and 2. I always had blower on which kept it from getting hotter.
5am


7

 

[bholler]

I’ll certainly split some logs again and check moisture in the center.

I let it burn overnight loaded at 11p and at 5a I had a pile of ash and coal which I suppose is normal. I moved burning embers to the front loaded with some newspaper kindling to get it going. Reloaded with 3 logs about 2-3” once it got going and closed damper to 1/4 open. Got temp up to 600. Reloaded with 4- 4-5” logs. And was able to get up to 650. An hour in with damper at 1/8 open now and staying at the 600 mark. Heated the basement from 66-70 in no time. The difference I think was I left blower off until it stayed consistent at 600.
My thoughts were 1. I wasn’t letting it get hot enough and 2. I always had blower on which kept it from getting hotter.
5am
View attachment 324088

7aView attachment 324090 View attachment 324089

No the blower won't really effect the burn much at all. The difference is you shut the air down more so you aren't loose g all the heat out the chimney

 

[Scatcraft7]

I appreciate everyone’s input. I got this running the way it should now.. I think.

I did split a few of my logs from the pile and moisture is the same if not less than how I was checking before so i def think wet wood was not my issue, and user error.

Whats your typical burn time before needing a reload? Seems like after I get it good and hot with a nice bed of coals and I load it up with 4-5 splits n&s, open damper for about 5-10min to get fire roaring, then choke it down, I’m due for a reload about 3hrs later. This is with the damper almost completely closed. The stove at that point is down to about 275-300deg.

 

[dafattkidd]

No the blower won't really affect the burn much at all. The difference is you shut the air down more so you aren't loose g all the heat out the chimney

This has not been my experience. My experience has been turning the fan on too early in the process often leads to cooler temps throughout the entirety of the burn. Allowing stove top temps to climb before turning the fan on is beneficial to getting and maintaining high temperatures.

I’m sure different units behave differently in different installations, but this has been my experience with three different inserts that n two different houses.