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Need help with local government!

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by Paver56, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. henfruit

    henfruit Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    712
    Loc:
    New Hampshire-Maine border
    The froling is ul listed.

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  2. I think most of the major brands are now. (UL listed)
  3. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,052
    Loc:
    Falmouth, Michigan
    True. Let me rephrase.
    It is generally acknowledged that UL listing is pretty much mandatory from an insurance standpoint.
    Many jurisdictions and insurance companies will deny approval without a UL listing or else require some type of independent proof that the product is safe to function and use in the USA.
    That has been my experience.
  4. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    6,386
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    I think you're correct on burning / heating appliances. I was just taking issue with the term "electrical," as that's my area of business, and UL is very rarely sought or requested on commercial electrical appliances of high complexity and low manufacturing volumes. There has to be significant sales volume associated with a product, or a specific customer requirement, to justify the cost of getting a product UL approved. Most manufacturers of low volume commercial electrical appliances seem to settle for advertising CE compliance, which is self-declared, versus third-party UL declaration. Some try to squeak by with deceptive terms like "UL compliant", as a self-declaration, but it means nothing.

    All irrelevant, if the Froling is UL listed.
  5. Paver56

    Paver56 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    Messages:
    51
    Loc:
    Lititz PA
    Sorry I have not replied for a while. Been busy- Thank you all for your advice and information. I received my letter today. I actually think he is being a lot easier on me than I thought he would. To clear a few things up, I did install it without a permit. I had a professional install it. My biggest beef with the entire situation is that I do not think that my heating system, which is not in the salon but is in the residential part of my basement, should fall under labor and industry. There is a 12" concrete wall between the salon and boiler.
    I have talked to many professionals and inspectors in the last week. The only people that agree that my heating system falls under L&I are L&I officials. Everyone else including some inspectors that cover the entire state of PA say that they are wrong and that they have to give notice before coming for an inspection.
    Another local business here with an Attack just got nailed too. They are simply going to an open system.
    I do not want to be argumentative and a pain in the butt with the inspector but I am a firm believer in the constitution as well as common sense. I can see inspections for commercial businesses-no arguments there. An in home business, of which I know of dozens in my area, should not fall under the scrutiny of L&I. Of all the people I have talked to, none of them have ever heard of L&I being involved in an in home business.
    I will go over the letter carefully tomorrow and let you guys know how it all works out.
    Thanks again.
  6. __dan

    __dan Burning Hunk

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    248
    Thanks for the followup. There is trouble you cause for yourself and trouble made by others that finds you.

    The permit is a no brainer. Have your licensed installer pull the permit. If he does not have the right license for that, he will be subject to steep fines and criminal charges. The inspector will be doing you a huge favor if he lets your installer pull the permit late without referral to the prosecutors office. If you did not do the install, do not pull the permit yourself, liability will attach to the licensed person.

    The earlier posters were talking about when the firewall causes the space to be divided into separate structures per code. Sometimes the firewall has to clear the roof line by three feet for that to happen, depends on the code requirement. If you feel you are being treated unfairly on the firewall and can make it substantial enough to separate the structures per code, that is definitely something you can request interpretation of the code for. There is likely a provision in the statute, in ct the state statute provides code interpretation by the state building officials office. Licensing and public safety are two different and separate code statute areas. The permit is a licensing issue, the firewall is public safety.

    Forget about the Constitution and common sense. The powers that be want everyone to fall into the average that they create, which is renting a total POS one bedroom apt, drinking from the public water supply, and dumping into the public sewer. Someone sees you making your escape, getting away from the propane bill, and thinks there must be something wrong with that. Forget about them too.

    Permits and code compliance are in your best interest and serve people who buy and build at the minimums. Building above the code minimums can cause trouble of a different sort (try it and see). Politics and the law change very slowly or not at all.

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