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Need Input for a Truly Nontraditional Hookup for an older Blaze King KTJ Stove

Post in 'Classic Wood Stove Forums (prior to approx. 1993)' started by putzenhimer8040, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. putzenhimer8040

    putzenhimer8040 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Loc:
    North Idaho
    I have a predicament and need each of your years of out of the box / nontraditional methods to hook a very challenging back-drafting stove application in a basement. I have read a lot on this forum and other web postings so now know enough to be dangerous, thus would like some tempered yet out of the box input. Here is why it is challenging (partly self induced & partly inherited):
    1. I have a very limited budget
    2. I have to use what is already in place & what I have
    3. Am going to try most cost effective simple solutions first to prove they will not work, then progress to more costly if possible
    4. On a very limited budget so am having to do it myself & figure it out with trial & error (& input from you :eek:) I am pretty mechanically inclined, remodeled home by myself over the last yrs time-frame and am an industrial technical professional in machining, sheetmetal & welding mfg applications.

    Here is the application:

    Have a +4500 sq foot home, built in late 80's, is 4 stories with vaulted ceilings, lots of windows & skylights, on top of a windy mountain in a canyon with updrafting winds (strike 1 in challenges), in North Idaho about 2700 ft elevation where temps range from 0 to 25 F all winter. Walkout basement had a wood stove installed at one time in the basement (strike 2 in challenges), it already has a 6" internal diameter Metalbestos SureTemp HT stainless triple wall chimney from the wall thimble, then has 2 30 degree verticle joggles (strike 3 in challenges) to get around a windowframe and then travels all the way up the outside of the home (strike 4 in challenges), through an eve and extending about 8' to 10' up a very steep pitched now snow covered roof (total chimney length is about 25' tall from thimble to top cap. I am told this setup is ~$5K alone. What I have for a stove to hookup is an older Blaze King King (KTJ) that does not have catalyst or EPA features (I think it could be around 47K BTU per hr rated?). This stove unfortunately has an 8" flue, (strike 5 in challenges).

    There is also multiple draft robbing things in this home, basement 100K BTU natural gas furnace, basement bathroom with fan, 2 restrooms on second floor with fans, 2 bathrooms on 3rd floor with fans, and a kitchen with a natural gas 70" double oven/6 burner range with a massive ~18-24" commercial ducted fan to pull the heat/exhaust out the side of that floor (strike 5 to +10x in challenges.... to many to keep counting!)

    The old owner told me they removed their old wood stove because after the wood would burn low late at night after they were in bed, the CO sensors would go off in the basement due to the cold air possibly coming back down the chimney (& possibly the gas furnace kicking on). We have been remodeling the home over the last yrs time-frame and living in a separate apartment above the garage (has own furnace, sealed & separate air supply & location). We have not moved into the main home until I can get the stove hooked up, proven save, and working properly. I am told heating the home on natural gas can be over $500 a month (experienced a $500 bill last winter someone accidentally left furnace on to high for several days), thus I HAVE to HAVE wood heat to afford to live in it (yes this is a sorry predicament ;o)

    Direction I have been heading:
    Hook up the stove inside with either 8" double wall Metalbestos DSP and transition it from 8" to 6" just before the outside 6" internal diameter wall thimble. Or transition from 8" to 6" right at the stove then run 6" double wall Metalbestos DSP to the wall thimble. The inside run from the stove to wall thimble is up about 36 inches, then a vertical 90 degree (thinking might use 2 45's) then horizontal run of about 2' with a 45 degree horizontal turn to get to the wall thimble. Any thoughts, pros / cons?

    Was also thinking might be prudent to use an outside air supply system. Can that be easily made out of dryer flex tubing & some high temp HVAC materials to the back of the stove? Any thoughts, pros / cons?

    Was also going to be puting CO sensors on each floor level. Should they be located high, middle or low on the wall plug in locations?

    Was also going to be putting a damper above the stove, should that be directly on the stove, or above the potential 8" to 6" transition? Any thoughts, pros / cons?

    Metalbestos makes a 15" long dripless single wall to 6" internal diameter triple wall connector (for the SureTemp HT connection), this is how I was planning on tying into existing system with the double wall DSP. I am pretty sure there will be draft issues so have been looking into draft inducers if needed. For cost purposes, I was considering using a Tjernlund AD-1 type inline draft inducer (~400 CFM?, ~$120)) and hooking it up to the single wall dripless connector just before the exit wall thimble. Any thoughts? Have heard using draft inducers into double & triple wall applications is not the best since gas can get pushed between the layers?

    Other option I can see would be to go with a higher cost roof system like a Tjernlund RT750H type system (~400 CFM?, ~$1300!) OUCH! My pocket book can not afford this and am leaning on trying the cheaper solutions before punting to this option that will completely empty my savings.

    So there you have my predicament: Old stove 8" flue, basement wall thimble with outside mounted 6" internal diameter 25' long chimney, with lots of draft robbing appliances, 8" to 6" transition with a potential draft inducer somewhere in the system.

    Sorry for the long winded layout, but am truly interested and looking for your candid input. And yes, I know I am crazy to even attempt this but at this point it is all I have to work with. Thanks in advance for taking time to read my post and provide your years of application experience, particularly for your most challenging & out of the box applications.

    Stu in North Idaho

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    47,354
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    You can try option A, reducing at the thimble and see if it works. 45's with a short connector may help. By its age, I suspect this stove will not have an option for an outside air kit. If so, the best you might do is to add outside air near its intake. Though with 3 leaky stories above the negative pressure could be strong in the basement. Why try to heat from the basement at all? Personally, I would find a place for the stove on the 1st floor if at all possible. I probably would sell the old stove and put one in that has a 6" thimble and redo the chimney pipe and thimble at the 1st floor level.
  3. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,215
    Loc:
    Bend, OR
    I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb here by saying that you're not going to heat that home with a woodstove in the basement. Any woodstove. You'll have a nice toasty basement, but not likely a heck of a lot more. In fact, I think it would basically be a waste of time, money, and effort to try. If you want to heat that place with wood, I think you need a wood furnace that ties into the existing ductwork and operates in concert with the existing NG system. That's my nickle's worth...right out of the box. Welcome to the forums! Rick
  4. putzenhimer8040

    putzenhimer8040 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Loc:
    North Idaho
    Thanks for your input (KEEP IT COMING, much appreciated!). We are going to be spending most of our time in the basement (playroom & family room, TV & wood stove), some of the time in the second floor (kitchen & laundry & furnace thermastat), and only really be sleeping on the third floor (with lots of blankets). Weird floor plan, but with kids & dogs they love the basement. I realize I won't be able to heat the entire home on the stove, but if I can cut the gas bill by 50% (hopefully more) it would be considered a success.

    I know the stove has a thermastat for the intake air on the back, so was thinking you could hookup the outside are to the underside of that box assembly on the back of the stove.

    I'm a pretty stubburn headed X#$#, so I will be trying (& possibly failing) a few ways to make this stove work for now. Put all our $'s into actually getting the home and then remodeling (then was just laid off, ouch!), now we are having to save a yr or two to be able to finish a few things as well as think about a newer wood stove. This winter is all about being as lean as we can and get the most out of what we have until our economy turns around.
  5. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,513
    Loc:
    SE MI
    Wow. Whatever you do, keep your family safe. They write manuals and installation instructions, and building codes for a reason.
  6. Hass

    Hass Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    529
    Loc:
    Alabama, NY
    I believe some users here do use a 8"->6" reducer on a BKK stoves... With tall chimneys of course. You can always try it and see what happens.
    you have quite a few bends though. But considering the cost to run a new 8" chimney, I'd try the reducer first.

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