bjkjoseph said:
It did. I can no longer get to the article because it is asking me to sign up, but it clearly stated to switch to an electric fireplace as the best option for clean/green solutions.
New Article About Fireplaces and Woodstoves
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It did. I can no longer get to the article because it is asking me to sign up, but it clearly stated to switch to an electric fireplace as the best option for clean/green solutions.
All I can say is only one person cited or quoted in that article would ever get an invite to my home.. and I actually doubt it would have as much to do with wood burning as the article made it sound. I hate hippies and commies.
My sister is going to buy a volt, because she feels "guilty" about polluting the planet..(with her escort that gets 30+MPG..) She gets 100% of her electricity from a coal fired power plant and lives in a 3400sqft all electric house. So she is going to buy a $15k car for $41k to ease the guilt.. We have been known to argue.
Now, I am going to eat a venison sausage sandwich, on white bread, put a full load in the stove, and drive my big old F350 15 miles to town for a box of nails and some bagels for in the morning.
My sister is going to buy a volt, because she feels "guilty" about polluting the planet..(with her escort that gets 30+MPG..) She gets 100% of her electricity from a coal fired power plant and lives in a 3400sqft all electric house. So she is going to buy a $15k car for $41k to ease the guilt.. We have been known to argue.
Now, I am going to eat a venison sausage sandwich, on white bread, put a full load in the stove, and drive my big old F350 15 miles to town for a box of nails and some bagels for in the morning.
bjkjoseph said:
"Not surprisingly, the green community has been sounding the alarm for some time. For the last several years, TheDailyGreen.com, an online magazine, has advocated replacing all wood-burning fireplaces with electric ones;"
Well, look at that.
NY Times and Boston Globe will be out of business within few years due to this moonbat BS......I stopped buying Globe few years ago after reading article after article advocating transgender adoptions, wife swapping and basically anything anti normal two parent hetro family - they are not big fans of white christian males either - they have become a joke!
Llamaman said:
And off to the Ashcan we go... But,
Transgender Adoptions: The list of hetro couples that make awful parents and crappy foster parents is long and ugly. Kids need adopting. Transgender/gay/whatever doesn't mean they are bad people.
Wife Swapping: Don't care. It's sex between consenting adults. I don't do it, but I don't care if you do it.
Wood and coal are two very different animals. For me, i would rather burn wood because it is a renewable resource and does not pollute the air and water like coal. Trust me, i have lived in WV my whole life, I know this. If we all threw out our wood stoves and bought electric heaters it really isnt solving anything, in fact it will only speed the rate at which coal is being consumed which will ultimately dry up at some point in our family trees. I currently pay nothing for heat (other than time and saw fuel/oil) and $30/month for electricity with supplemental solar heat/electric. That will soon be near $0/month, and ultimately the electric man will pay me when i turn that meter backwards on good months. Im pretty happy with my stove and i aint buying an electric one when i have 30 acres of hardwoods waiting to be selectively harvested for heat.
the times article the second page has picture of a woodstock...and the home owners talk of the benefits of epa wood stoves...the article also states that epa wood stoves are a clean alternative to open fireplaces..as for electric your right...but the article clearly did not knock epa wood stoves...
brianbeech
Feeling the Heat
bjkjoseph said:
You're right, it didn't, but it did knock wood burning which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what you do even in an EPA wood stove. I will agree that the article was not an assault on wood stoves though; so you're right there.
Bottom line my friends? Don't look to the NYTs to inform you about the physical/chemical/ecological/physiologica/technological implications of solid wood fuel heating. And I say that as one who has read the paper for 40+ years. The critical factor that is completely ignored by this reporter, and those interviewed, is: What is your alternative heat, and how is IT produced? In my necka, my electric heat/cool comes from coal fired power plants. That is by far the norm in the USA. And the equation doesn't even end there, as most of you know. You'd need to know what the sulfur content is for that coal, the age of the powerplant and the kind of scrubbers it uses. Let's not even talk about mountain top removal mining, shall we? At some point the equation of single point source emissions vs. multi-point becomes too complex to know. If you are holding off on wood burniing because it is a "guilty pleasure", I'd say that you probably don't have enough information to be guilty.
What this article does tell you is that there is a ton of misinformation out there. We as a culture have lost so many practical skills that we are going to sorely miss in the coming decades, and wood firing is just one of those. This forum does a tremendous job of keeping that knowledge alive, while also taking it to the next level of understanding. Think about this too: If this forum hasn't come close to coming to a definitive close on this discussion (and it surely hasn't), who expects a two page newspaper article to even come close?
What this article does tell you is that there is a ton of misinformation out there. We as a culture have lost so many practical skills that we are going to sorely miss in the coming decades, and wood firing is just one of those. This forum does a tremendous job of keeping that knowledge alive, while also taking it to the next level of understanding. Think about this too: If this forum hasn't come close to coming to a definitive close on this discussion (and it surely hasn't), who expects a two page newspaper article to even come close?
Random thoughts . . .
I didn't take this article to be all anti-wood . . . more anti-wood-burning fireplace . . . the focus really seems to be on folks using the wood burning fireplace. Being a NYC-based newspaper there is obviously a focus on NYC and I suspect for the reporter the whole idea of putting a wood burning insert or stove into the fireplace probably struck them as new and unusual . . . I think the general references to burning wood was not meant to be anti-wood, but again the NY-centrist spin would be that for many folks in NYC when they burn wood it is only in their fireplaces . . . they just used general terms and failed to make the differentiation between burning wood in an EPA stove (which they later touch on) and burning wood in an efficient fireplace.
Anytime a person burns wood or cow dung it's causing pollution . . . well . . . yeah . . . but what's the alternative Eco-Chick . . . all heat comes from somewhere . . . electric heat -- burning coal (oh no that's bad, right?), nuclear (oh no that's just as bad, correct?), hydro-electric (that's bad since it blocks the waterways for the fish and doesn't allow one to kayak the rivers naturally) so that leaves what . . . solar, tidal, ocean currents, wind . . . nice ideas . . . but not fully developed right now . . . the alternatives are natural gas, propane, heating oil . . . or shivering to death in a cold home. Another question . . . who burns cow dung in their fireplaces . . . or woodstoves . . . can't think of too many modern Americans doing so.
Hmmm . . . the number of fireplaces being built dropped in 2009 . . . all because folks are thinking green? I'm thinking it's more likely due to the fact that a lot fewer newer homes were being built and folks who were in existing homes were more worried about keeping their job vs. renovating the house . . . anyone looking at wood for serious alternative heat who had to have a chimney most likely went with a Class A chimney or used their existing chimney.
I'm not so sure Karen Soucy and I would get along so well . . . and I'm pretty tolerant of most folks.
Hey . . . . a picture of a Woodstock stove!
I get a kick out of folks who drive Prius or who are avid recyclers . . . and there's nothing wrong with either . . . but then they live in massive homes, have all kinds of energy-sucking appliances, etc. I honestly don't know if it's true or not, but I once heard (I think it was on Top Gear so you would have to take this with a grain of salt) that the batteries in the Prius start out by being mined in Canada and then are shipped to Europe where they are refined and then shipped to China and then on to Japan . . . seems like a lot of energy goes into just building the batteries. Me . . . when I'm trying to conserve fuel for both the environment and to save money I'll simply drive my 4-cylinder Accord which gets a decent 35 mpg.
I didn't take this article to be all anti-wood . . . more anti-wood-burning fireplace . . . the focus really seems to be on folks using the wood burning fireplace. Being a NYC-based newspaper there is obviously a focus on NYC and I suspect for the reporter the whole idea of putting a wood burning insert or stove into the fireplace probably struck them as new and unusual . . . I think the general references to burning wood was not meant to be anti-wood, but again the NY-centrist spin would be that for many folks in NYC when they burn wood it is only in their fireplaces . . . they just used general terms and failed to make the differentiation between burning wood in an EPA stove (which they later touch on) and burning wood in an efficient fireplace.
Anytime a person burns wood or cow dung it's causing pollution . . . well . . . yeah . . . but what's the alternative Eco-Chick . . . all heat comes from somewhere . . . electric heat -- burning coal (oh no that's bad, right?), nuclear (oh no that's just as bad, correct?), hydro-electric (that's bad since it blocks the waterways for the fish and doesn't allow one to kayak the rivers naturally) so that leaves what . . . solar, tidal, ocean currents, wind . . . nice ideas . . . but not fully developed right now . . . the alternatives are natural gas, propane, heating oil . . . or shivering to death in a cold home. Another question . . . who burns cow dung in their fireplaces . . . or woodstoves . . . can't think of too many modern Americans doing so.
Hmmm . . . the number of fireplaces being built dropped in 2009 . . . all because folks are thinking green? I'm thinking it's more likely due to the fact that a lot fewer newer homes were being built and folks who were in existing homes were more worried about keeping their job vs. renovating the house . . . anyone looking at wood for serious alternative heat who had to have a chimney most likely went with a Class A chimney or used their existing chimney.
I'm not so sure Karen Soucy and I would get along so well . . . and I'm pretty tolerant of most folks.
Hey . . . . a picture of a Woodstock stove!
I get a kick out of folks who drive Prius or who are avid recyclers . . . and there's nothing wrong with either . . . but then they live in massive homes, have all kinds of energy-sucking appliances, etc. I honestly don't know if it's true or not, but I once heard (I think it was on Top Gear so you would have to take this with a grain of salt) that the batteries in the Prius start out by being mined in Canada and then are shipped to Europe where they are refined and then shipped to China and then on to Japan . . . seems like a lot of energy goes into just building the batteries. Me . . . when I'm trying to conserve fuel for both the environment and to save money I'll simply drive my 4-cylinder Accord which gets a decent 35 mpg.
firefighterjake,
I find a lot to like in what you said. Not burning cow dung also has environmental impact: methane.
I find a lot to like in what you said. Not burning cow dung also has environmental impact: methane.
Don't know if many here are regular readers of John Michael Greer's web blog, but you'll see many overlaps in his writing and what you'll see posted here.
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/
(He even hosts a forum, which you can access on his website, which discusses wood heating technologies.) He is a very sane voice, in my opinion, and his polestar ethic is to look for "appropriate" technologies. In that one word is a passel of good sense. In my world, where my neighbors regularly leave whole oak trees on the curb for trash pickup. where the kWatt is generated by ancient coal fired steam generators and the low temps are not that extreme for many months,.....well, a woodstove is the very definition of "appropriate." Now, if we could just find a wood fired air conditioner....
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/
(He even hosts a forum, which you can access on his website, which discusses wood heating technologies.) He is a very sane voice, in my opinion, and his polestar ethic is to look for "appropriate" technologies. In that one word is a passel of good sense. In my world, where my neighbors regularly leave whole oak trees on the curb for trash pickup. where the kWatt is generated by ancient coal fired steam generators and the low temps are not that extreme for many months,.....well, a woodstove is the very definition of "appropriate." Now, if we could just find a wood fired air conditioner....
LOL! I believe in live and let live and agree with most of your points but don't need a slanted opinion piece on everything under the pretense of it being objective "news" - both the Globe and NYT have very extreme social agendas which slant their stories like this BS about wood heat - stay warm!
"And off to the Ashcan we go… But,
Transgender Adoptions: The list of hetro couples that make awful parents and crappy foster parents is long and ugly. Kids need adopting. Transgender/gay/whatever doesn’t mean they are bad people.
Wife Swapping: Don’t care. It’s sex between consenting adults. I don’t do it, but I don’t care if you do it. "
"And off to the Ashcan we go… But,
Transgender Adoptions: The list of hetro couples that make awful parents and crappy foster parents is long and ugly. Kids need adopting. Transgender/gay/whatever doesn’t mean they are bad people.
Wife Swapping: Don’t care. It’s sex between consenting adults. I don’t do it, but I don’t care if you do it. "
[quote author="firefighterjake" date="1295652024"]Random thoughts . . .
so that leaves what . . . solar, tidal, ocean currents, wind . . . nice ideas . . . but not fully developed right now . quote]
Probably more developed than you are led to believe. There's A LOT of $$-incentive-$$ to not bring those technologies into play at the moment.
so that leaves what . . . solar, tidal, ocean currents, wind . . . nice ideas . . . but not fully developed right now . quote]
Probably more developed than you are led to believe. There's A LOT of $$-incentive-$$ to not bring those technologies into play at the moment.
BrowningBAR said:
I may have to reassess my general opinion of you given this posting and your absolutely correct interpretation of the article in the times. It was absolutely worthy of sarcasm as it was clearly written by a typical New York narcissist.
here was a Boston Globe classic from few years back, just had to share..........ok, now back to obsessing with scrounging free firewood!
On Wednesday the Boston Globe published graphic photos of alleged sexual abuse of Iraqi women by U.S. soldiers. The suspect photos were later found to have been taken from a hardcore pornography Web site.
"This photo should not have appeared in the Globe," said editor Martin Baron. "First, images portrayed in the photo were overly graphic. Second, as the story clearly pointed out, those images were never authenticated as photos of prisoner abuse. There was a lapse in judgment and procedures, and we apologize for it."
The photos were taken by the Globe at a Tuesday press conference held by Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner, who in turn said he had gotten them from "a very legitimate person."
Although the reporter who wrote the accompanying story, Donovan Slack, expressed doubts about the veracity of the photos, a number of editors at the Globe approved the publication.
"It's insane," Slack said. "Can you imagine getting this with your cup of coffee in the morning? Somehow it got through all our checks. Our publisher's not having a very good day today."
-- Compiled from wire reports and other media sources
On Wednesday the Boston Globe published graphic photos of alleged sexual abuse of Iraqi women by U.S. soldiers. The suspect photos were later found to have been taken from a hardcore pornography Web site.
"This photo should not have appeared in the Globe," said editor Martin Baron. "First, images portrayed in the photo were overly graphic. Second, as the story clearly pointed out, those images were never authenticated as photos of prisoner abuse. There was a lapse in judgment and procedures, and we apologize for it."
The photos were taken by the Globe at a Tuesday press conference held by Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner, who in turn said he had gotten them from "a very legitimate person."
Although the reporter who wrote the accompanying story, Donovan Slack, expressed doubts about the veracity of the photos, a number of editors at the Globe approved the publication.
"It's insane," Slack said. "Can you imagine getting this with your cup of coffee in the morning? Somehow it got through all our checks. Our publisher's not having a very good day today."
-- Compiled from wire reports and other media sources
Dakotas Dad said:
Dude! :bug: Don't harsh my groove!
Seriously, I've found thoughtful, kind people come in all forms, you included.
Milt said:
Indeed. I've found that thoughtful, kind folks rarely fit any of the standard stereotypes.
And, to lighten the tone:
:lol:
That article makes me want to vomit. Sure there is a few positive things to say about EPA stoves but the main point is burning wood is bad, I mean bad people. But if you really gotta.....then do it with an EPA stove. Seems you have the East coast, West coast, then realityville everywhere else in the middle. No offense eastcoasterners, My aunt lives in Conn. and I have alot of friends over there. Just seems you read more sh*t like that coming out of New England or California than anywhere else.
(Curious) George said:Dakotas Dad said:
Dude! :bug: Don't harsh my groove!
Seriously, I've found thoughtful, kind people come in all forms, you included.
Milt said:
Indeed. I've found that thoughtful, kind folks rarely fit any of the standard stereotypes.
And, to lighten the tone:
:lol:
Nobody fits a standard stereotype outside of a Klansman's mind and a movie.
Hey
The writer is making a good living.
Look at all the input & attention it's got.
Explains allot about the condition of our country.
Some are convinced to purchase/pay for/buy $^#t because somebody convinced them, some how, that it was a good thing to do.
& make money doing it.
We're in trouble!
Who's John Galt?
The writer is making a good living.
Look at all the input & attention it's got.
Explains allot about the condition of our country.
Some are convinced to purchase/pay for/buy $^#t because somebody convinced them, some how, that it was a good thing to do.
& make money doing it.
We're in trouble!
Who's John Galt?
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